Compressor help - Do I need a Pedal?

[alexa3020]

Little bit of advice required. I have an onboard compressor on my Ashdown ABM evo iv head which I have never used until last practice. On previous amps that I've used with onboard compressors, they didn't seem to make a huge amount of difference unless you really cranked them - and even then I never really liked the result.

On the Ashdown, I added just a touch of Compression, and I found it to be really useful - reducing the dynamic range of the bass just a little and evening everything out a little.

Now I'm wondering if I need a pedal, I'm led to believe the onboard compressors on the ABM's are not great. So I'm thinking would I benefit with a decent compressor pedal?

The main issue is where should the compressor be in the signal chain? I've always thought rightly or wrongly that it should be at the start of your chain. I have found that if the compressor comes after the fuzz for example, you lose a bit of definition.

Unless I use the effects loop,  the onboard compressor will always be after the fuzz.

It'd be great to get peoples take on this.

 

[MuddBass]

Hi Alexa3020 - here is a fab resource for you to have a read/wade through : http://www.ovnilab.com/faq.shtml There is a very useful section on placement. For me, it goes first in the effects chain, and sometimes it is the only pedal I use!

A dedicated pedal is probably your next step - if you are on limited budget, have a look at the TC Hypergravity. I am sure others will suggest many others! I use an Empress Bass compressor, but it is nearly £300.

Enjoy experimenting, and remember that you will probably only appreciate the full affect when you are using live with a band etc. 

 

 

[alexa3020]

2 minutes ago, MuddBass said:

Hi Alexa3020 - here is a fab resource for you to have a read/wade through : http://www.ovnilab.com/faq.shtml There is a very useful section on placement. For me, it goes first in the effects chain, and sometimes it is the only pedal I use!

A dedicated pedal is probably your next step - if you are on limited budget, have a look at the TC Hypergravity. I am sure others will suggest many others! I use an Empress Bass compressor, but it is nearly £300.

Enjoy experimenting, and remember that you will probably only appreciate the full affect when you are using live with a band etc. 

 

 

Thanks for the resource - I'll take a look.

Since writing the post, I have remembered I bought a TC Electronic vintage compressor years ago - which I think I still have (will have to do some hunting). I don't know if its decent or not but at least I should be able to experiment with it

[Lozz196]

It’s funny but at the last practice where I used my ABM600 I had both the compressor on the amp and my Seymour Duncan Studio compressor pedal on. It was by accident but I found that I preferred it like that than with either one on its own. I’m sure I could get the same results with tinkering with the settings on the Seymour Duncan though, it’s a very flexible pedal.

[CliveT]

If it were me I would say no, you don't need a pedal.  If the compressor on your Ashdown does the job for you then when you get to use decent PA support the FOH engineer will add whatever compression they feels is right.  Unless of course you use compression more like an effect rather than just basic compression?

[alexa3020]

1 hour ago, CliveT said:

If it were me I would say no, you don't need a pedal.  If the compressor on your Ashdown does the job for you then when you get to use decent PA support the FOH engineer will add whatever compression they feels is right.  Unless of course you use compression more like an effect rather than just basic compression?

It’s just basic subtle compression I’m after.   
I didn’t realise I would find it that useful, until I used it. Now I’m thinking am I missing out on something.

Glad I have found the Tc to play about with. The guide from @MuddBass is excellent too.

[Downunderwonder]

If a little of the onboard does the trick I wouldn't be chasing another rabbit down a hole. What would a different comp achieve except adding too much compression when you already have just the right amount?

[alexa3020]

6 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

If a little of the onboard does the trick I wouldn't be chasing another rabbit down a hole. What would a different comp achieve except adding too much compression when you already have just the right amount?

You probably have a point. Perhaps the only advantage will be that I can have it at the start of my signal chain. I probably wouldn't go out and buy a pedal, but given that I already have one, I think I'll have a little play and see how I get on.

The TC vintage comp  is a copy of the T rex Comp Nova all the vids I have found on youtube are with guitars - Hopefully that doesn't matter. I'm guessing there's no real difference between a compressor for guitars and bass 

[51m0n]

Metering!

You aren't an expert at hearing compression. Your supposition that you are just adding a 'bit' of compression may or may not be accurate at all. Probably if you can hear it, it's a little more than you need, or it's got a typically poor automatic make up gain and is in fact just a bit louder than before and that is tricking you into thinking it's better.

Proper control of attack, release, threshold and make up gain, possibly even knee, side chain filtering and wet dry mix are all really useful too.

It's a long journey you have taken the first step on. Enjoy it.

 

You'll be after a Becos Twain before you know it 😁

[BadHands]

Compressors are a divise subject on here, but if you enjoy the sound, it could be good to start playing around with a pedal. Making sure you learn the standard parameters of compressors and what they actually do, helps a lot as different pedal models might call them different things. Being able to look at a knob called "compression", and you knowing that's the threshold (or input gain), makes all the difference to how you use it. But if you look into it and it seems boring, I'd just stick with the on-board comp if you already like it - If it ain't broke!

As far as where you put it, that depends on the kind of compressor it is. Robert Keeley differentiates between compressor limiters and compressor sustainers. Sustainers increase the sustain of a sound by gradually increasing the volume of a note as it sustains, creating the illusion of longer sustain (Or bringing the floor of the sound up, as I like to imagine it).

Compressor limiters are more about the ceiling of the sound, and what happens with the signal when it reaches a certain threshold, compressing it to various degrees, or all out limiting (cutting the sound off).

So Mr Keeley says that compressor limiters can go anywhere in a signal chain as it only cares about what happens to the signal ABOVE a certain threshold, whereas sustainers should go near the beginning because they're bringing quieter sounds (Including noise) up.

So if it has a sustain knob that you want to use, stick it at/near the beggining, but if it doesnt, you can stick it anywhere!

Hope this helps. It's a dry subject to learn about, and as people say, the FOH person will add healthy compression anyway, but it's alwayf fun to dig deeper on a subject.

 

[dave_bass5]

On 28/06/2021 at 15:15, alexa3020 said:

On the Ashdown, I added just a touch of Compression, and I found it to be really useful - reducing the dynamic range of the bass just a little and evening everything out a little.

 

 

I’d say there’s you answer right there. Dont go chasing ‘better’ when you are happy with what you have. Keep it simple and concentrate on playing and enjoying your tone.

Yes, there are better, much better, but (IMO) unless you know what you are looking for then stick with what you are happy with, at least for a while. 

Edited July 2, 2021 by dave_bass5

[ezbass]

32 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

I’d say there’s you answer right there. Dont go chasing ‘better’ when you are happy with what you have. Keep it simple and concentrate on playing and enjoying your tone.

Yes, there are better, much better, but (IMO) unless you know what you are looking for then stick with what you are happy with, at least for a while. 

There’s your answer. If you like what it does, job done. Next…

[Cuzzie]

I would advocate a compressor pedal with appropriate controls even if you don’t end up using it long term as it’s a great learning experience - you may find stacking like Lozz said reveals something - before you start of you do, just remember what your start ‘happy’ settings were to default back to them

[alexa3020]

Tc vintage compressor fitted to pedal board. Let’s see how it goes

[dave_bass5]

1 hour ago, Cuzzie said:

I would advocate a compressor pedal with appropriate controls even if you don’t end up using it long term as it’s a great learning experience 

I agree with that, and ill add, IME, one with a decent set of LED’s. Ive had Comps over the years and as i was never really serious about using them i could never hear what was happening when tweaking the controls, at least not until i was at extreme settings. Even those like the Cali with its glowing single LED didnt really help me  (probably my fault). Then the Becos came along and the LED’s are very responsive and i could finally see properly what was going on, but more importantly I understood what the main knobs did and how they interacted. Less knobs than on others ive had, but the right amount for me. Although i dont use a comp now, it really helped when i got in to home recording and using Comps. 

[alexa3020]

38 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

I agree with that, and ill add, IME, one with a decent set of LED’s. Ive had Comps over the years and as i was never really serious about using them i could never hear what was happening when tweaking the controls, at least not until i was at extreme settings. Even those like the Cali with its glowing single LED didnt really help me  (probably my fault). Then the Becos came along and the LED’s are very responsive and i could finally see properly what was going on, but more importantly I understood what the main knobs did and how they interacted. Less knobs than on others ive had, but the right amount for me. Although i dont use a comp now, it really helped when i got in to home recording and using Comps. 

Unfortunately the one I’m using doesn’t have any LEDs. I did have a play around with headphones & managed to get my head round what was going on. So I have a rough idea on what I want. I doubt I’d be able to hear what was going on if playing at band volume though

[garyt]

On 02/07/2021 at 22:36, dave_bass5 said:

I’d say there’s you answer right there. Dont go chasing ‘better’ when you are happy with what you have. Keep it simple and concentrate on playing and enjoying your tone.

Yes, there are better, much better, but (IMO) unless you know what you are looking for then stick with what you are happy with, at least for a while. 

The best advice ever …. 

[BassAdder60]

Revisiting this thread as I’m also an Ashdown ABM600 user and started using compression 

 

However I don’t like the onboard amp compressor as it drops the volume slightly and felt it smothered the tone

Im now trying the Ampeg Opto Compressor front of amp and I’m liking the result 

[Boodang]

TC Electronic Spectracomp. Tri band with toneprints that have been setup by someone who knows what they are doing. I found it gave me a puncher sound on the Nathan East print and now it's always on.

Cheap to buy and lots of fun trying the different toneprints.