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Singers who don't understand how music works


Nail Soup

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1 hour ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

I wouldn't get too flustered, for perfect fourths the error between just and equal temperaments is only two cents for each instance, so if your A is tuned to a tuning fork, both E strings and the D are two cents out, the G and B are four cents out, which is probably better than most guitarists can achieve by ear or fretting notes on adjacent strings.

Most people should be able to hear 1/20th semi-tone difference - which is 5 cents

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4 hours ago, zbd1960 said:

Most people should be able to hear 1/20th semi-tone difference - which is 5 cents

 

Most musicians probably...

 

But hearing the difference between two notes one after the other is not the same as detecting a difference in an interval or detecting one instrument out of tune with another.

 

It's rather like comparing colour swatches, you can discriminate small differences between two adjacent colours, but not if they are separated by any distance.

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the lead singer of my band atm keeps trying to take my bass and ‘suggest’ bass lines for me, which I’m ok with, but he has absolutely zero musical talent. In the middle of practice once, he actually came and tried to take my bass out of my hands whilst I was playing! Luckily he hasn’t been to practice in a while as he’s fallen out with just about every member of the band…

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8 hours ago, rogo said:

the lead singer of my band atm keeps trying to take my bass and ‘suggest’ bass lines for me, which I’m ok with, but he has absolutely zero musical talent. In the middle of practice once, he actually came and tried to take my bass out of my hands whilst I was playing! Luckily he hasn’t been to practice in a while as he’s fallen out with just about every member of the band…

Am amazed he’s still in the band to be honest. Maybe you should try suggesting vocal lines for him, the higher parts should become easier with your bass up his ar*e....

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11 hours ago, rogo said:

the lead singer of my band atm keeps trying to take my bass and ‘suggest’ bass lines for me, which I’m ok with, but he has absolutely zero musical talent. In the middle of practice once, he actually came and tried to take my bass out of my hands whilst I was playing! Luckily he hasn’t been to practice in a while as he’s fallen out with just about every member of the band…

Sounds a bit like my singer... he likes to sing bass parts to me! We're a covers band, and he'll occasionally throw in a suggestion at rehearsal of a song he wants to do that very minute with a view of gigging that weekend. Some things you can muddle your way through with root notes and watching the guitarist and keyboard player. Others are a bit more tricky and I'll say I don't know it, but can learn it for next time. For example, I explained The Beatles - Don't Let Me Down has quite an important bassline and I'd need to spend some time to get it right. He proceeds to try and sing the part to me - "You do know it - it goes dooo do doo dodoo...".

 

He's tried it a few times mid-gig to, to accommodate requests. As much as I'd like to do that Thunder song to make that punter happy, I've never even heard it before! "It's easy, it goes..."

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Because I come from a classical singing background, I wouldn't dream of even thinking any of that as I understand that you can't just play (or sing) something you don't know... I suppose the issue with some of these singers is they have no musical background and they're singing something they know, or they've heard, and all they have to do is sing the melody line...

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8 minutes ago, bass_dinger said:

 Yes, Mr Punter - the TUNE goes like that . . . but how does the bassline go?  What are the harmonies?

 

At least your singer realised that he needs to sing the bassline to you.

Or at least how he thinks it goes. But generally an attempt at a bassline at least!

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2 hours ago, geoham said:

 

... "You do know it - it goes dooo do doo dodoo...".

 

"No, I don't know it, but if you can write it out for me in accurate notation (or tab if you must), I will see if I can play it for you."

 

Keep a supply of staff paper and a black pen in your gigbag in case of this eventuality.

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6 hours ago, geoham said:

He proceeds to try and sing the part to me - "You do know it - it goes dooo do doo dodoo...".

 

 

We used to get people asking for songs. "Don't know it mate". " Aye ye do, it goes dee doo dah dee doo". As if we are going to suddenly go "oh you're right we do know it after all mate, thanks for reminding me!"

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8 hours ago, borntohang said:

I'm lucky in that I rarely play with a singer who doesn't also play an instrument, which helps a lot for basic theory. Massive fan of singers trying to teach other musicians parts via mouth guitar and semaphore though. "Can you make that second fill more like babab baba babababda!" 

Those BC members old enough will remember similar goings on listening to the famous ‘The Troggs Tapes’.

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12 hours ago, StickyDBRmf said:

The Miles Davis autobiography: John Coltrane to Miles, "I don't know how to end a solo." Miles, "Take the horn out of your mouth."

Coltrane is a 'marmite' thing: you either him love or hate him. I've tried, but just don't get on with his music at all. 

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On 23/09/2021 at 00:04, rogo said:

the lead singer of my band atm keeps trying to take my bass and ‘suggest’ bass lines for me, which I’m ok with, but he has absolutely zero musical talent. In the middle of practice once, he actually came and tried to take my bass out of my hands whilst I was playing! Luckily he hasn’t been to practice in a while as he’s fallen out with just about every member of the band…

You mean he's tried it more than once? Blimey, you are a much more patient and forgiving person than me...

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I don't really have a problem with anyone who can't understand music in an amateur setting. Most people have no formal training or taken part in formal ensembles or even jammed in blues or jazz bands. It's becoming more and more common to meet musicians who need to rehearse bands over and over again before they'll play live and can only play tunes that they've learned.

 

I have no problem with any of that, so long as they realise what their limitations are and don't argue minutiae over things they don't know about or really understand. 

 

One of the basic requirements I have for any musician or vocalist is; if we say, take it from the second verse, bridge, chorus or whatever, they can pick it up. I've wasted too much rehearsal time playing a song again from the top, only for it to fall apart in exactly the same time, everytime. If you're practicing an end, just practice the end.

 

One problem with singers and guitarists is its often impossible to transpose some tunes without them sounding 'not right', or impossible to play on bass or guitar. I don't care if it's your favourite song and everyone would go crazy if we play it, if we can't find a key that works inside 3 minutes - it's a no goer. Don't suggest it again 3 weeks later. 

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On 23/09/2021 at 00:04, rogo said:

the lead singer of my band atm keeps trying to take my bass

 

I joined a band where the singer 'could play bass', he even said he'd bring his as a spare to a gig. 

 

So when he questioned a line I was playing and said he could play it to show me, I handed him my bass with no problem.

 

That was when I learned why he was the singer and not the bass player...

 

I take my own spare bass to gigs.

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