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Battery saving switch


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17 hours ago, NancyJohnson said:

It's just a pfaff to be honest; especially as sometimes I just want to have a noodle for a few minutes.  I forget to unplug it the cable is on the floor.  

Noodle with another bass?

Get in the habit of unplugging it to put it down?

 

Rewire the preamp power supply to a new switch?

I think if you are going to forget to unplug you are going to forget to toggle off a foot switch.

Velcro your good self to the lead when you plug it in so you can't forget?

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18 minutes ago, Downunderwonder said:

Noodle with another bass?

Get in the habit of unplugging it to put it down?

 

Rewire the preamp power supply to a new switch?

I think if you are going to forget to unplug you are going to forget to toggle off a foot switch.

Velcro your good self to the lead when you plug it in so you can't forget?

I've got six basses (honest, guv), three passive, three active.  My point really is all about forgetfulness; we've all been there.

The primary thing is that I used to favour passive instruments, but the Spector changed that; a creature of habit, I've had 30+ years of just leaving basses plugged in and change can be a pain in the a**.  

I'm still a little surprised that decades since the advent of active circuitry (and the complexity therein), just leaving the jack plug in can lead to 100% failure.

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The reason for the simple lead insertion = on system is it is the most reliable for the most people. A separate switch is prone to be forgotten and the bass put away in the case to be found dead on next use. Those are the choices until you go for complicated electronics which would increase the cost.

Tough luck Buttercup!

Of the potential practical solutions I like the reminder loop of string around your leg from the lead plug.

The first time you forget to toggle off your custom foot switch TRS lead combo you'll know I am right.

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I just thought I'd pipe in to say that I tried adding a kill switch to one of my bitsa basses a few years ago.  I basically added a toggle switch to the scratch plate and soldered it to where the contacts would be on the jack socket.   The new jack socket didn't have the switching on it, or I made it so it wouldn't work when you plugged the jack in, I can't remember.

The problem was that when you flicked it, you still got the loud "bang" you get when you normally plug in an active bass to an amp that is turned up.  So, it adds a another layer of "what are you prepared to do" - You could leave the bass plugged in, but there would be the faff of turning your amp off and on or up and down before you did (or you'd need a pedal).   I wanted mine for the break between sets in gigs to save touching my amp once I'd set it.  I suppose an in-line mute pedal might have solved it but I didn't really use any pedals in those days.    

To get a nice smooth on/off switch like I wanted I reckon you'd need some kind of additional smoothing circuitry to cover the "thunk" effect of the switch. 

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17 minutes ago, Huge Hands said:

To get a nice smooth on/off switch like I wanted I reckon you'd need some kind of additional smoothing circuitry to cover the "thunk" effect of the switch. 

Yes. You'd need something like a switch that ramped up/down to avoid clicks and thumps. Typically this is done by using a jfet transistor to switch but it's not easy in a bass as you need to generate additional power rail(s) to make it work well.

SSM used to make an integrated switch ic solution for this that was quite widely used in mixing desks etc. but it's no longer made.

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3 hours ago, NancyJohnson said:

I've got six basses (honest, guv), three passive, three active.  My point really is all about forgetfulness; we've all been there.

The primary thing is that I used to favour passive instruments, but the Spector changed that; a creature of habit, I've had 30+ years of just leaving basses plugged in and change can be a pain in the a**.  

I'm still a little surprised that decades since the advent of active circuitry (and the complexity therein), just leaving the jack plug in can lead to 100% failure.

TV's and other entertainment gear goes into standby mode and you could use that but it would add to the cost and the current drawn when you aren't playing is so low there would hardly be any point. I frequently forget to unplug and the batteries still last me round a year. I have a routine of giving my actives a Christmas present of a new battery and I've never had a failure yet. DUring lockdown I went to May before the battery failed in my John East equipped J. The fender P is still going strong.

If you are forgetting the plug you will forget a switch so it's unlikely to help. A little LED is not a bad idea and any competent tech could fit you something easily enough. You'd be able to buy a lot of batteries with the cost though. A bicolour LED with green for a good battery and red for one nearing the end of it's life would be brilliant of course. The pre-amp in my acoustic guitar has an LED.

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51 minutes ago, Phil Starr said:

 A little LED is not a bad idea and any competent tech could fit you something easily enough. You'd be able to buy a lot of batteries with the cost though. A bicolour LED with green for a good battery and red for one nearing the end of it's life would be brilliant of course. The pre-amp in my acoustic guitar has an LED.

I've just got my first active bass (a Yamaha TRB5P) and there is even a small plug for where an LED should go, so I'm getting one fitted. I've found an LED warning light for when the power starts getting low (there is a posher version that costs $17 or £50 depending on where you buy it and that is set so the light comes on at 7.7v. The type below costs £3 and they can set it to come on at whatever you say you want it to.

https://www.modellingelectronics.co.uk/products/low-battery-indicator-model-boats/

 

 

Edited by 6feet7
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5 hours ago, 6feet7 said:

The type below costs £3 and they can set it to come on at whatever you say you want it to.

https://www.modellingelectronics.co.uk/products/low-battery-indicator-model-boats/

That's neat but I'd want to check what the current draw actually is - what counts as 'very low power consumption' might be a bit different between a model boat that runs for a few hours on a rechargeable pack and a bass that you expect to last for months on a PP3. 

Off the wall suggestion ....

How about a tilt switch? When the guitar is vertical on a stand, it turns off. In the playing position, it turns on.

Genius!

With the added bonus that it would also cut out if you started pulling any of that neck-in-the-air rock star posturing 😄

Edited by nekomatic
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8 minutes ago, nekomatic said:

That's neat but I'd want to check what the current draw actually is - what counts as 'very low power consumption' might be a bit different between a model boat that runs for a few hours on a rechargeable pack and a bass that you expect to last for months on a PP3. 

 

Or here's the guitar version - $17 from the states and over £50 over here. Looks to be the same thing.

https://www.ninetribe.uk/products/low-battery-indicator-pmt-lobat-for-active-electronics

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2 hours ago, Killed_by_Death said:

 

Tear out all the active components & go 100% Passive!

 

Yep, an unamplified upright bass is clearly what the OP wants and needs.😎

As @itu advised, a soft start feature is going to be a really good idea in any case.

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On 16/06/2021 at 14:01, nekomatic said:

Thing is, if you get a switch to solve the problem of forgetting to unplug the bass whats to say you won’t forget to switch the switch off? (I hasten to add, I know I would!)

This. If you forget to unplug the lead you'll probably forget to pull the knob, flick the switch, do the secret handshake, flood the tanks, batten down the hatches and whatever other solutions which require manual intervention. You've just gotten into a habit and are looking for a technical solution for it which, to me, seems like the wrong way to go and destined to fail regardless which way you choose to get around it. Just change the habit. Regardless of the bass, get into the habit of unplugging when you have finished. You don't have to do anything else, leave the lead hooked in the strap so it's right there when you want to play again. Just get into the habit of unplugging the bass when you stop playing, whether it's active or passive. It'll become second nature in no time at all.

Edited by Doctor J
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6 minutes ago, Doctor J said:

destined to fail

 

7 minutes ago, Doctor J said:

get into the habit of unplugging when you have finished

As an alternative to potential trip hazard or nipple ring tearing out I suggest the following amendment.

Get in the habit of saying ''I am putting down the bass, I don't want to Downunder my nipple, I mean run down my battery'' and unplug.

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What about a sound-sensing device which senses when other noises/sound is being made above a certain volume, ie from other band members, and doesn't turn the bass on unless it 'hears' something else above a certain threshold?

This would have a side advantage too - no bass solos.

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Soft start? Basically you are over thinking all of this. It’s no different to plugging a bass into an amp that’s already on.

Turn the bass on before you power the amp.

Jeez. It’s like I’ve stumbled onto a forum full of guitarists and drummers.

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On 16/06/2021 at 16:10, EBS_freak said:

I've thought of quite a cool solution - sometimes the most obvious ones are the ones that are overlooked. How about changing a pot to a push pull pot to break the circuit to the battery. Done.

This - it's standard on Sandberg active basses.

Works very well.

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37 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

This - it's standard on Sandberg active basses.

How certain are you about this?  I thought the Sandberg push-pull pot is a 'bypass' switch rather than an 'off' switch, and that the battery still runs down even in bypass mode.  However, I am not 100% certain.

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6 hours ago, Passinwind said:

As @itu advised, a soft start feature is going to be a really good idea in any case.

I guess you could fit an RC network / filter to the battery output with a long enough time constant to avoid sudden turn on of the electronics.

Slight delay before circuit is powered may be unnerving ?

Or a delayed relay / switch that is closed a short time after power is applied - similar to what's often used in hifi amps to avoid turn on thumps. + ac couple the output signal with a pull down resistor to 0V after the capacitor.

Or something...

tbh I'd just go with the push/pull pot idea and live with any turn on / off transients.

Edited by rmorris
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