Anyone play bass and keys on stage?

[Woodinblack]

8 minutes ago, tauzero said:

I use a McMillen 12-step for this with one band - so I can play strings or similar to fill out the sound on guitar soloes. I use it in legato mode, so the notes play until I play another note. Bottom C is programmed with no notes at all so I can stop it.

Why do you do it that way? Pressing the 'select' button is the standard way of cancelling the last legato note.

[tauzero]

3 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

Why do you do it that way? Pressing the 'select' button is the standard way of cancelling the last legato note.

Isn't that for Hold mode? Press select once to go into Normal mode and switch off all notes, again to go back into Legato mode. Doing it this way means I just have to do one press to stop the note and I don't mess up which mode it's toggled into. I'll have an experiment with it in Legato.

[Woodinblack]

No, that is how I use it. It is in legato (as it is a legato patch). press a note to hold that note, press select to cancel the note. If you press it for a long time then yes, it goes to select to select a patch but the time you have to hold it is considerably longer than the time you have to cancel it, it would be nearly impossible to do it accidently I would think (certainly never happened to me in hundreds of gigs).

Just looked, and what you are describing is Hold mode, where select toggles between legato and normal mode. I have never used hold mode, mine is always set up in legato mode.

[tauzero]

I've just had a little play and in legato mode (which is what I use), pressing Select briefly put it into Select mode. When I looked at the Settings tab, Select sensitivity was set about halfway up. I reverted it to the default setting (reset select sensitivity button) and that changed it so a brief press on Select stopped the notes, a longer press put it into Select mode. So I think that what Mr McMillen defines as sensitivity and what I define as sensitivity might vary.

[Skinnyman]

I use a Roland GR55 which is getting a bit long in the tooth but still works brilliantly for those times when we need strings or synth textures.

I have a couple of patches set up where the E and A string are “straight” bass and the D and G strings are picked up as MIDI and handled by the GR55. 

I’m now looking to use the MIDI out to drive an external sound module. I’ve proven the theory with my little Roland Gaia but I want something that has a decent selection of preset voices. The Akai Miniak mentioned earlier sounds interesting…

[Woodinblack]

43 minutes ago, Skinnyman said:

I’m now looking to use the MIDI out to drive an external sound module. I’ve proven the theory with my little Roland Gaia but I want something that has a decent selection of preset voices. The Akai Miniak mentioned earlier sounds interesting…

Wouldn't you be better off with a sound module rather than the Miniak, assuming you haven't got an iPad or need keys. The miniak doesn't have a better sound module than the one in the GR55

Note also that the output of the Gr55 can be a bit glitchy for fast patches.

Edited May 11, 2021 by Woodinblack

[Skinnyman]

32 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

Wouldn't you be better off with a sound module rather than the Miniak, assuming you haven't got an iPad or need keys. The miniak doesn't have a better sound module than the one in the GR55

Note also that the output of the Gr55 can be a bit glitchy for fast patches.

I’ve just had a look at the Miniak and I think you’re right, it doesn’t really offer much more than the GR55. 

A sound module would be ideal but I’m struggling to find one with a good set of presets at a sensible price.

I had to spend a lot of time setting up the GR55 when I got it, calibrating it and setting the sensitivity, etc. Since then it’s never glitched on me at all. That said, I don’t play really fast patches, mainly strings or pads, but it easily copes with the odd sax solo or piano fill. 

I know they’re getting on a bit and there are probably better midi solutions these days but I really like mine and it does just what I need it to do.

I just want to broaden the available palette a little if I can

 

[BassTractor]

5 minutes ago, Skinnyman said:

I’ve just had a look at the Miniak and I think you’re right, it doesn’t really offer much more than the GR55. 

Not wishing to try and sell you a Miniak, and I don't know the GR55, but one thing I know in-depth is that the synth engine of the Miniak is unparallelledly advanced in the price bracket.

I read the GR55 has 900 PCM presets, which IME probably means the individual sounds can be tweaked to some degree. Then if you like those presets, your needs are covered. 
The Miniak OTOH does have 500 or so presets, and as I said initially these are a travel through hit history, but the Miniak's real power is in that you can build the exact sound you need - either from a preset or from scratch. Not everyone's cup of tea of course, but very, very, very powerful.
(Me, I bought an iPad editor app for it, thusly evading the Miniak's user interface - though before that I programmed from scratch on the unit itself and that worked more than fast enough when I got used to it.)

Of course your needs, or the OP's needs, might be met better with another box.

[Woodinblack]

2 minutes ago, Skinnyman said:

I’ve just had a look at the Miniak and I think you’re right, it doesn’t really offer much more than the GR55. 

A sound module would be ideal but I’m struggling to find one with a good set of presets at a sensible price.

Indeed, most modules dont do as much as the GR55 anyway, although a bit easier to setup.

2 minutes ago, Skinnyman said:

I had to spend a lot of time setting up the GR55 when I got it, calibrating it and setting the sensitivity, etc. Since then it’s never glitched on me at all. That said, I don’t play really fast patches, mainly strings or pads, but it easily copes with the odd sax solo or piano fill. 

Some of the glitching you don't notice in the GR, it is really fast, like it will decide that the note playing is a D, then a fraction of a second later it realises its an e, so it pitch bends up. Not really noticably internally, but a bit of a pain outside.

Its quite a surprise looking at the data from it.

2 minutes ago, Skinnyman said:

I know they’re getting on a bit and there are probably better midi solutions these days but I really like mine and it does just what I need it to do.

I think  they are great devices. Either you can get a basic module which gives you a set of preset patches, which is pretty simple or you can get something a bit more fancy and synth like, such as the Argon/blofeld/deep mind etc.

I guess it depends what sounds you want.

[Woodinblack]

9 minutes ago, BassTractor said:

I read the GR55 has 900 PCM presets, which IME probably means the individual sounds can be tweaked to some degree. Then if you like those presets, your needs are covered. 
The Miniak OTOH does have 500 or so presets, and as I said initially these are a travel through hit history, but the Miniak's real power is in that you can build the exact sound you need - either from a preset or from scratch. Not everyone's cup of tea of course, but very, very, very powerful.

You can on the Gr55 too, if you use the external editor, most people dont. The technology of both of them is fairly old, as both are later rehashes of older models, the Miniak is a micron with a vocoder added, so back from 2003, and the GR55 I think is one of the JV modules with some updates. I would say the GR55 is probably the more advanced of them both.

I would certainly not call the miniak advanced for the price, unless you really needed the vocoder and the keyboard.

9 minutes ago, BassTractor said:

(Me, I bought an iPad editor app for it, thusly evading the Miniak's user interface - though before that I programmed from scratch on the unit itself and that worked more than fast enough when I got used to it.)

If I was just after the module and not the keyboard and had an iPad, you will find much more powerful software synths as apps. I use an app (although quite a basic one).

[Skinnyman]

18 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

I guess it depends what sounds you want

The Miniak caught my attention when it was described as being a walk through the history of hits. Ideally, I’d like a decent set of strings (the GR’s are okay but a bit limited), a good Hammond/Leslie and then a bunch of classic 80’s synth patches. We play mainly 80’s stuff and although I can get close approximations building my own it’s very time consuming and, in a perfect world, I’d find a module with them all pre-built (I know, I’m a dreamer!). 

The Roland Boutique range is very interesting but it seems like I’d need to buy a few of them and not all have presets. The Roland Integra would probably be perfect but that’s well over a grand and way more than I need.

I did wonder about the Yam reface dx or the MX49 but I guess i should try and get to a shop and try a few out…

[Woodinblack]

7 minutes ago, Skinnyman said:

The Miniak caught my attention when it was described as being a walk through the history of hits. Ideally, I’d like a decent set of strings (the GR’s are okay but a bit limited), a good Hammond/Leslie and then a bunch of classic 80’s synth patches.

That is largely why I use iM1. Its an old 90s synth (it is the app version of the M1 synth), but it was *the* 90s synth, in that any piano sound you heard in the 90s was an M1, and it covers the 80s too.

7 minutes ago, Skinnyman said:

We play mainly 80’s stuff and although I can get close approximations building my own it’s very time consuming and, in a perfect world, I’d find a module with them all pre-built (I know, I’m a dreamer!). 

Its pretty simple, most of the sound modules have those sounds built in as that is what most people need.

7 minutes ago, Skinnyman said:

The Roland Boutique range is very interesting but it seems like I’d need to buy a few of them and not all have presets. The Roland Integra would probably be perfect but that’s well over a grand and way more than I need.

I did wonder about the Yam reface dx or the MX49 but I guess i should try and get to a shop and try a few out…

So you are more after taking a keyboard round rather than a module? The Reface DX is great if you want a DX but unless you are a good at algorithm editing it is hard to get the sounds you want from the 80s (I have one). I use it because it has a fantastic quality keyboard for the size and can do a good few sounds. I have a Roland DS61 which I love because you can play whatever sound simply and easily, again large keyboard. If I was more concerned about decent hammond and reasonable pianos and synths, I would go for the Roland VR09.

[BassTractor]

1 hour ago, Woodinblack said:

You can on the Gr55 too, if you use the external editor,

Ah. I'd overlooked that possibility. Thanks for mentioning.

The Micron already had the vocoder, BTW, but the Miniak offered better UI, steel pot shafts, a better set of presets and a microphone. Some say that it also was redesigned internally so it should live longer, but I haven't seen this confirmed.

All of this of course has relatively little to say for the original question of the OP, which I tried to answer before the OP saw new possibilities in other directions. I maintain the Miniak is a beast, as is the Blofeld Keyboard. Whether someone is served by their vast capacities is another matter.

Edited May 11, 2021 by BassTractor

[Skinnyman]

31 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

So you are more after taking a keyboard round rather than a module?

No, I’d be happy with a module - but I don’t mind taking a keyboard if I have to.

32 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

Its pretty simple, most of the sound modules have those sounds built in as that is what most people need

Interesting. I’ll take another look at the Roland Boutique series and some of the Behringer modules. If they have the sort of sounds that I want built in then they’re a no-brainer.

Thanks, BTW, for all the suggestions and apologies for derailing the thread somewhat

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, Skinnyman said:

Interesting. I’ll take another look at the Roland Boutique series and some of the Behringer modules. If they have the sort of sounds that I want built in then they’re a no-brainer.

The botiques, not so general - they are designed to be copies of the synths from the 80s, and that is what they are. However, they are each '1 synth from the 80s', whereas stand alone sound modules are 'a number of synths from the 80s'. 

You can go from one extreme: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm//353406650861 up to the roland integras.

When I used a hardware module I used a Korg O5R/W, just because I have one which I bought in the mid 90s.

[41Hz]

11 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

I have a Roland DS61 which I love because you can play whatever sound simply and easily, again large keyboard.

That’s interesting, I’ve been drifting up in price since I started looking at this and the Juno DS61 was looking like a great choice. Am I correct the phrase pad thing can be used to trigger wav files that can be loaded in?  Only real downside is it a bit on the large side.

btw- There’s one on gumtree in Bridgend at 325 which seems a bit of a bargain, but a bit too far for me to travel, so might be useful for someone nearby. 

[41Hz]

12 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

If I was more concerned about decent hammond and reasonable pianos and synths, I would go for the Roland VR09.

And now you've got me looking at this😁

I see you can download a cover band preset bank for it, which would be useful for lazy buggers like me.

http://axial.roland.com/articles/the-cover-band-collection/

looks a bit cheaper than the ds61 with a better organ/synth trying to work out what the advantage of the ds61 would be over this?

Edited May 12, 2021 by 41Hz

[NancyJohnson]

I don't play keyboards as such, but I know the notes.  Some very good mates of mine needed some keys for one song, so I did it for them.  Little midi keyboard into an iPad (or something similar).  Droooooning synthy sounds.

[Woodinblack]

2 hours ago, 41Hz said:

That’s interesting, I’ve been drifting up in price since I started looking at this and the Juno DS61 was looking like a great choice. Am I correct the phrase pad thing can be used to trigger wav files that can be loaded in?  Only real downside is it a bit on the large side.

Yes, I have the phrase pads set up with samples. It has a whole programable section I have never used. It is very accessible, such that if someone says "Play a flute sound", you have at most 3 clicks to get a basic one. It is large, although it is very light and it works on batteries.

 

2 hours ago, 41Hz said:

And now you've got me looking at this😁

I see you can download a cover band preset bank for it, which would be useful for lazy buggers like me.

http://axial.roland.com/articles/the-cover-band-collection/

looks a bit cheaper than the ds61 with a better organ/synth trying to work out what the advantage of the ds61 would be over this?

I find they tend to hold their price, and note there are two VR09s, the second one has a better keuboard.

The DS is a flexible multi preset device for playing lots of sounds, The VR09 is an organ with some other presets tacked on. Really the organ of the VR-09 is hard to beat until you start going up in price a lot. Mainly because of the flexibility of the drawbars

I got the DS at the time as I needed the flexibility and I wanted the sample playback functions.

This is the trouble with synths. With a bass, different colour, different look, basically all sound pretty similar. Synths, similar prices, huge difference in functions, but all crossing over each other. It is a rabbit hole I tell you!

[41Hz]

2 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

It is a rabbit hole I tell you!

Tell me about it. Now looking at the Roland FA06. Probably overkill for something that will get used for 2-3 songs max, so maybe I need to reset to something cheap and cheerful

[xgsjx]

46 minutes ago, 41Hz said:

Tell me about it. Now looking at the Roland FA06. Probably overkill for something that will get used for 2-3 songs max, so maybe I need to reset to something cheap and cheerful

The thing is though, whatever you get, you'll start finding ways of using it more & that 2-3 songs ends up being most songs.

I looked at the FA08 a few years ago, but I ended up getting a NI S88 controller.  Problem was, it was way too big for me to make use of.  I didn't have a studio in the house & carting it to band rehearsal was not what I wanted to do.  I then got the Roli & with it being fairly small, it gets used regularly.  The FA06 is a decent size & not too big to take around.

Me, I've a hankering for a Roland System 8.

[tauzero]

I've made myself a squishbox. Software synth module, uses soundfont files. Open source, so I've also programmed it to be able to play songs.

[Woodinblack]

2 hours ago, xgsjx said:

The thing is though, whatever you get, you'll start finding ways of using it more & that 2-3 songs ends up being most songs.

I looked at the FA08 a few years ago, but I ended up getting a NI S88 controller.  Problem was, it was way too big for me to make use of.  I didn't have a studio in the house & carting it to band rehearsal was not what I wanted to do.  I then got the Roli & with it being fairly small, it gets used regularly.  The FA06 is a decent size & not too big to take around.

I got the roli 25 but the I got annoyed because I ran out of space. So I got rid of it and got the 49, but it is quite big so I use it less (but more when I do!). I also have a linnstrument that I keep thinking about gigging with, but haven't yet.

[xgsjx]

Just now, Woodinblack said:

I got the roli 25 but the I got annoyed because I ran out of space. So I got rid of it and got the 49, but it is quite big so I use it less (but more when I do!). I also have a linnstrument that I keep thinking about gigging with, but haven't yet.

A Rise37 would be the ideal size. 😎

[Woodinblack]

47 minutes ago, xgsjx said:

A Rise37 would be the ideal size. 😎

Indeed. It would be about the same size as the linnstrument (but with a smaller range).

I upgraded to Equator 2 while they had the 25% off and the updgrade offer, and that is pretty impressive. Probably the best synth I have. Works with both the roli and the linnstrument