Compressor misconceptions

[Jus Lukin]

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Edited March 14, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Al Krow]

On 09/05/2021 at 18:16, wateroftyne said:

I've never used one down the Dog'n'Duck, and a no point have I thought I'd need one.

I've really liked your tone on the various clips you've posted over the years on BC and I'm also aware you've played to some very large audiences, certainly by most BC'ers standards. Do you not use a pedal board comp at all even for larger (non pub) gigs?

Out of interest, are you using any other pedals or going straight into your amp / DI'ing straight into the PA?

1 hour ago, Jus Lukin said:

Thanks!

You're correct about the ears of course, but blinking lights would sure speed up setting it up as a three-band end of chain peak limiter!

I know the OP had a bit of bee in his bonnet about us not using cheaper compressors, but the Spectracomp seems to be a big fav on BC and would certainly fall into the "budget" category; as with all things bass, it's not necessarily about paying top dollar but as @Baloney Balderdash rightly said it's about getting the most out of what we already have (and I'm certainly not excusing myself from that). I have to agree with you, though, some form of metering can be very useful.

[wateroftyne]

11 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

I've really liked your tone on the various clips you've posted over the years on BC and I'm also aware you've played to some very large audiences, certainly by most BC'ers standards. Do you not use a pedal board comp at all even for larger (non pub) gigs?

Out of interest, are you using any other pedals or going straight into your amp / DI'ing straight into the PA?

Thank you 🙂

I've never used an outboard compressor in my little signal chain. So if I'm down the Dog'n'Duck without PA support, it is what it is, and people seem to like it.

If there's a PA, it'll undoubtedly get compressed and that's fine. 

Gernerally speaking I'll DI from my amp, but at bigger gigs I'll go Bass > DI box > amp, so if something breaks, it ain't my fault 😄

Edited May 11, 2021 by wateroftyne

[stewblack]

I am a prize pillock. Don't panic BB I won't be badgering you for tips. The comp on my Plethora is Hypergravity not Spectracomp. 

An utterly terrifying 35 parameters in the editor. 

I think I might just learn love one someone else has created!

[Osiris]

1 hour ago, stewblack said:

I am a prize pillock. Don't panic BB I won't be badgering you for tips. The comp on my Plethora is Hypergravity not Spectracomp. 

An utterly terrifying 35 parameters in the editor. 

I think I might just learn love one someone else has created!

I've played with the Tone Print editor for both the Sprectracomp and the Hyper Gravity and it's pretty much identical in terms of parameters, although I seem to the ink the SC had 48 different settings you can configure last time I looked, which admittedly was 2 or 3 years ago. My first reaction was bewilderment too but you've essentially got the same controls for each of the 3 bands - plus a couple of global parameters such as crossover points. If you have a little understanding of what each control does, your basic threshold, ratio, attack, release, knee then it soon becomes pretty intuitive to use and you can be creating your own sounds shortly after. For example, with my Hyper Gravity I set up a patch that was essentially a single band compressor, I set the low band to work as an adjustable high pass filter assigned to one of the physical controls and set the high band at a high frequency (<5KHz, IIRC) with a low ratio to work as subtle brightness boost on another of the physical controls. The mid band did the heavy lifting of the main, full band-ish compression. The patch resulted in being part compressor, part 3 band EQ. The other 2 physical controls were one adjusting the threshold of the mid band and a master volume which also brought in more clean signal as you boosted it. While dual and multi band compressors are technically 'better' for bass compression I do like the overt sound of single band bass compression, when done right I like the way that it clips the lows, especially when using a more immediate compressor type, FET designs being perfect for this type of thing. But you can do what you want with the TC pedals, everything from subtle and transparent to flat out squash. With the Tone Print app the world, as they say, is your lobster. 

[grandad]

I take my hat off to those here who are competent in the black art of compression. 

I'm just thankful for my 1 knob Spectracomp control which I use sparingly.

[stewblack]

1 hour ago, Osiris said:

the world, as they say, is your lobster. 

Limited only by my crustacean grasp of the toneprint editor and the function of compression! 

However I learning both, slowly. 

[Chienmortbb]

4 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

There’s an optical limiter (not sure if that’s what you’re referring to) but I rarely - if ever - hit that limit.

That said, regardless of head, I’ve never knowingly used compression in a backline-only situation.

I was refering to the inbuilt compression of a valve output stage. Of course it depends how hard you drive it.

[wateroftyne]

14 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

I was refering to the inbuilt compression of a valve output stage. Of course it depends how hard you drive it.

Ah, my main head is the A/B one.

[Osiris]

1 hour ago, stewblack said:

Limited only by my crustacean grasp of the toneprint editor and the function of compression! 

However I learning both, slowly. 

Slow and steady wins the race. Good job really as speed isn't so easily achieved when dragging an exoskeleton around at all times 🦀. But baby steps are the way to go, it's not something anybody will master overnight, take your time, experiment with the various controls, listen and feel to what's happening to the sound, how much more consistent and controlled the bass is, how it sits better with the instruments around it, how it becomes more punchy and so on. As a sweeping generalisation less is usually more, and embrace the fact nobody other than you may notice or care. 

[Al Krow]

20 minutes ago, Osiris said:

...it's not something anybody will master overnight...and embrace the fact nobody other than you may notice or care. 

Absolutely brilliant concluding statement!

But no disagreement from me: if the gear we play gives us joy, then what better reason is there to have it?

[Cuzzie]

32 minutes ago, Osiris said:

 ......take your time, experiment with the various controls, listen and feel to what's happening to the sound, how much more consistent and controlled the bass is, how it sits better with the instruments around it, how it becomes more punchy and so on. 

Quite like this concluding statement

[Al Krow]

On 06/05/2021 at 11:17, Osiris said:

I just try to offer a balanced and reasoned counterpoint to threads like those in order to try to bring balance back to The Force. 

Oh wise Underworld Jedi of the Dead.

If we take the above two "concluding statement" posts together, dear chap, I think you've finally achieved your objective and brought balance back to The Compression Force. 

YF

Dark(ish) Lord.

[Japhet]

15 hours ago, grandad said:

I take my hat off to those here who are competent in the black art of compression. 

I'm just thankful for my 1 knob Spectracomp control which I use sparingly.

Works for me too. Sometimes I use it, sometimes I don't. I've learned over the years that you can spend hours faffing around setting up something that sounds lovely at home that then sounds complete poop at a gig. A simple one knob pedal like the Spectracomp is an easy remedy.

[Al Krow]

I think Teebs has finally come up with answer we've all been waiting for! 

OP said don't get something cheap (tick)

I've been banging on about getting something that someone, anyone will actually notice (tick)

Well here it is, and it's also Japanese designed like so many of the best pedals (tick): 

On 11/05/2021 at 13:39, Teebs said:

I hope no one can say that compression is just hot air after this?

Edited May 13, 2021 by Al Krow

[Lozz196]

Looks a bit of a wankel to me!

[Chienmortbb]

On 11/05/2021 at 19:30, wateroftyne said:

Ah, my main head is the A/B one.

My mistake. However the main thing is that compressor, no compressor, valve or solid state. If it works for you, its good.

[dodge_bass]

On 11/05/2021 at 14:30, wateroftyne said:

Thank you 🙂

I've never used an outboard compressor in my little signal chain. So if I'm down the Dog'n'Duck without PA support, it is what it is, and people seem to like it.

If there's a PA, it'll undoubtedly get compressed and that's fine. 

Gernerally speaking I'll DI from my amp, but at bigger gigs I'll go Bass > DI box > amp, so if something breaks, it ain't my fault 😄

Worth pointing out that p bass and flats and a good technique is likely to provide a fairly even signal anyway - kind of natural compression I guess. I’m always astonished when recording with that setup how even and with few spikes the audio file records. So compression really may not be necessary. 

[Cuzzie]

30 minutes ago, dodge_bass said:

Worth pointing out that p bass and flats and a good technique is likely to provide a fairly even signal anyway - kind of natural compression I guess. I’m always astonished when recording with that setup how even and with few spikes the audio file records. So compression really may not be necessary. 

I don’t disagree with this on the audio spikes, but it’s worthwhile remembering that compression is not there to just tame spikes etc. It can be used to appropriately change the punch/presence/sustain/timbre of the notes as well as make it more present in a mix

[dodge_bass]

7 hours ago, Cuzzie said:

I don’t disagree with this on the audio spikes, but it’s worthwhile remembering that compression is not there to just tame spikes etc. It can be used to appropriately change the punch/presence/sustain/timbre of the notes as well as make it more present in a mix

Of course, agreed and thanks for pointing that out as of course compression does more than just tame spikes. I guess for me that's the main thing I use it for, gently taming any errant notes / variation across the finger board rather than massively altering the other aspects of the sound hence my focus on that.

[Cuzzie]

6 hours ago, dodge_bass said:

Of course, agreed and thanks for pointing that out as of course compression does more than just tame spikes. I guess for me that's the main thing I use it for, gently taming any errant notes / variation across the finger board rather than massively altering the other aspects of the sound hence my focus on that.

That’s cool and it entirely depends on the compressor you use of course as well as how you use it.

If people get the chance an easy way to see how a compressor can affect the sound as well as do it’s other job is to have a go on the Hyperluminal by Darkglass. It has the Super Symmetry, FET (essentially Cali76 Urei 1176), and BUS (solid state Logic) compressor under the hood. There is a clear and obvious difference between all 3 at the touch of a button.

[itu]

On 13/05/2021 at 12:03, Al Krow said:

Well here it is, and it's also Japanese designed like so many of the best pedals (tick):

Felix was German.

La chanson de Roland is French.

Do these two together make Japan? Or just hot air? Who am I? Is there any beer? [screams and runs away...]

[Lee77]

While playing along to some nice drumming YouTube vids yesterday I accidentally started playing with just a compressor on. Sounded just how I wanted.

I would even go as far as saying I would keep the compressor over the preamp.

I can definitely see how a compressor adds sparkle but agree that at a gig even I probably wouldn't notice it. But playing on my own with headphones and recording it is awesome!

[krispn]

I was playing with my comp into my Apollo messing with some new DAW preamps and there’s that thing where the bass sound just becomes that bit more ‘professional’ like it’s already been mixed into the track when jamming along to recorded music. Obviously balancing volume counts too but with that wee push on my bass the sound just punched. I love it and f*ck the crowd! I like what my compressor does and I will gladly use it at every conceivable opportunity. If you can’t hear it/feel it/vibe it then that’s cool. 

[jrixn1]

Due to this thread, I went and bought my first compressor - a Spectracomp.  Here are three takes bumbling through Sir Duke.  One is bypassed, one is the default toneprint at 12 o'clock, and one is the 'Captain East' toneprint at 12 o'clock.  Is it clear which is which?  I think the uncompressed one does sound a bit uneven in parts.  The other two, is 12 o'clock about right - or do I need to dial it up, or down?

 

A.mp3 B.mp3 C.mp3