18” no more?

[Steve Browning]

11 minutes ago, taunton-hobbit said:

Currently I've a couple of Barefaced Dubsters (2x15) fed off a 300watt Matamp slave

(the green one with the Maltese crosses on Google images) with K120 bottles -

and an electronic crossover feeding an Ormat 100 to two Mackie C200 -

The weight saving is enormous and the total 'heft' alarmingly similar to the old set !

😎

When Barefaced first emerged I toyed with the idea of a Dubster and a regular 2x15. At that time, the cost was prohibitive. Still would be. 😞

[BlueMoon]

During the early 80s I had a Peavey 130 combo that had an 18" Black Widow speaker in it. The thing weighed a ton.......but I was young and knew little else at the time. I had progressed from a 60s Selmer cabinet with a Goodmans 18" in it. That was a cabinet almost shoulder high and also weighed like a boat anchor.

[Phil Starr]

1 hour ago, drTStingray said:

I never experienced any problems using 1970s transistor amps - they produced (relatively) clean sound. Bands like Led Zeppelin used Acoustic, along with many R and B and reggae bands (eg The Wailers). Unless you're talking those early Vox transistor amps re reliability (1960s). It was only when I moved away from valve amps I could actually hear myself in a band situation with keyboards etc!!

A interesting thing about 18 in speaker cabs and technology, Jet Harris in the early 60s used an 18 in speaker loaded cabinet - the cabinet loaded with sand to dampen the sound - for recording!!! 

When did 4 X 10s become generally available? I don't recall them in the late 70s - they were a must to get a decent slap sound in the 80s and tweeters help as well. 

If you look at video of famous rock acts in the late 60s you will see bass players using 4 X 12s with large valve amps (eg Free - using Orange - with a phenomenal bass sound). Others used Marshalls (I recall particularly Leo Lyons used 2 X Marshall 100 or 200 heads, with 4 X 4 X 12). 

I think reggae acts particularly liked 1 X 18s as thunderous low end is a must in that genre. However 1 X 18 should be fine unless you want to project high end detail or nuance. 

 

Ha ha, I earned part of my living repairing them and I even produced a short run of amps to try and sell. I have a jaundiced view. The problem was secondary breakdown of power transistors at high temperatures. The advent of power FET's solved the problem. I'm talking about things like the first WEM amps so late 60's, early 70's. By the late 70's most of the problems were solved. HH produced the first decently reliable solid state amps over here but even then I still have a box of power transistors I bought ready to do repairs.

And yes 4x12's were the usual speaker of the time often loaded with Celestions or Fanes rated at 30 or 25W. They weren't particularly designed for guitar or bass and design was pot luck. There were open backed bass speakers for goodness sake. There wasn't a big choice available either so what worked was the order of the day. The nice thing was that without a lot of mass production I got to do a lot of custom builds. Really good fun but I shudder to think of the lack of any basic theory behind some of the designs.

[chris_b]

1 hour ago, peteb said:

I think it was in the mid 80s with companies like SWR . . . .

Didn't David Nordschow of Eden, design the first 410 for SWR?

I know Mesa Boogie used Eden 10's in their cabs but but I think that was after the SWR.

[chris_b]

Back in the 60's and 70's I saw Vox, HH, WEM and Carlsboro being used, but I never heard anyone get a good sound out of transistor amps. By the 80's MusicMan and Dynacord were sounding fantastic with their FET's

[bertbass]

My 4 Vox Foundation cabs sounded pretty good with any valve amp I used them with.

[peteb]

1 hour ago, chris_b said:

Didn't David Nordschow of Eden, design the first 410 for SWR?

There seems to be some dispute of his exact role, but he was involved - whether it as just him or he worked with Steve Rabe is unclear. 

Looking at a Talkbass thread, I have just found out something that I didn't know. Apparently there is no "David Eden". Its the David SERIES of products, by Eden. Its a play on words, "David" vs. SWR's "Goliath". 

[KiOgon]

In '73 I went up to that London to get myself some new gear 😎 I had recently aquired a new shiny plastic thing called Barclaycard and it was burning a hole in my pocket ☺️

After trying every Rickobasher in town and being incredibly p1553ed off with them, I fell in love with a beautiful blonde Gherson Jazz, had to have it!

Then - trying it through a HiWatt 100 and a cab I can't remmember - I wanted more of everything, grunt, heft, trouser flapping wind, etc.etc.

The sales guy said 'hang on a minute' and rushed out of the shop, returning shortly with a monster Orange cab, on a trolley, standing 5 foot high and 2 foot wide and about the same weight as HMS Ark Royal, concealing 2 x 18" massive cones. It sounded wonderful, fulfilling all my dreams, to be the envy of every other bass player, (in Bexhill at least!).

It was 'perfect', fitted in the back of my Mk1 Cortina estate with amp and bass just right!

2 weeks later I was back in town buying another HiWatt 100 to push even more air through it 😮

Those really were the good ol' days, then in '75 I got married, '76 it all came to a bitter end, I had to give up gigging, she couldn't stand the lifestyle of a bass playing rock 'n roll hero, you've heard it all before 🤩

[chris_b]

More nerdy stuff. . . . . . also, I believe, SWR designed the Groove Tubes pre amp and James Demeter designed the first Eden amps.

[peteb]

4 minutes ago, chris_b said:

More nerdy stuff. . . . . . also, I believe, SWR designed the Groove Tubes pre amp and James Demeter designed the first Eden amps.

Yep - that's also in the TB thread. 

Demeter actually designed the preamp in the first Eden head. 

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/history-lesson-thunderfunk-swr-eden-etc.157829/

 

Edited April 30, 2021 by peteb

[triplebass]

2 hours ago, KiOgon said:

In '73 I went up to that London to get myself some new gear 😎 I had recently aquired a new shiny plastic thing called Barclaycard and it was burning a hole in my pocket ☺️

After trying every Rickobasher in town and being incredibly p1553ed off with them, I fell in love with a beautiful blonde Gherson Jazz, had to have it!

Then - trying it through a HiWatt 100 and a cab I can't remmember - I wanted more of everything, grunt, heft, trouser flapping wind, etc.etc.

The sales guy said 'hang on a minute' and rushed out of the shop, returning shortly with a monster Orange cab, on a trolley, standing 5 foot high and 2 foot wide and about the same weight as HMS Ark Royal, concealing 2 x 18" massive cones. It sounded wonderful, fulfilling all my dreams, to be the envy of every other bass player, (in Bexhill at least!).

It was 'perfect', fitted in the back of my Mk1 Cortina estate with amp and bass just right!

2 weeks later I was back in town buying another HiWatt 100 to push even more air through it 😮

Those really were the good ol' days, then in '75 I got married, '76 it all came to a bitter end, I had to give up gigging, she couldn't stand the lifestyle of a bass playing rock 'n roll hero, you've heard it all before 🤩

a friend of mine got divorced because of his “side activities” - gigs... married the same lady again  3 years later... divorce no.2 followed, they’ve been settling the estate for last 2 years...

[taunton-hobbit]

I had a dig about & I found this from 1981 (!) 

Shows my gig wagon, decks, and more importantly (bottom right) a view of one of my twin18 & Vitavox  boxes

(the other boxes are some of the Tannoy 15's that I bought from the Blind Beggar pub)

(why do we never take 'proper' pics?)

 

 

[Dad3353]

1 hour ago, taunton-hobbit said:

...(why do we never take 'proper' pics?)

 

 

Because a Brownie Box camera can only do so much ... 

[Reggaebass]

1 hour ago, taunton-hobbit said:

that I bought from the Blind Beggar pub)

That used to be my local 🙂

[jazzyvee]

I still use an 18" bass cab as a stand alone cab for some of my reggae gigs but prefer it with my 1x12" cab as it gives me a bit more detail whilst not detracting from the low end. I have used it like this on a few gigs and mainly on gigs without the bass in the PA. 

[taunton-hobbit]

This was one reason that I started adding Tannoys to the sound ............

😎

Edited May 2, 2021 by taunton-hobbit

[peteb]

16 minutes ago, Reggaebass said:

That used to be my local 🙂

My dad's mate used to run it...! 

[Reggaebass]

6 minutes ago, peteb said:

My dad's mate used to run it...! 

I don’t drink anymore, last time I went past it was  a bit more of a pub/ restaurant , looks nice 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Reggaebass

[peteb]

1 minute ago, Reggaebass said:

I don’t drink anymore, last time I went past it was  a bit more of a pub/ restaurant , looks nice 

I've not been there for about 15 years. I imagine that even then, it was somewhat different to when my Dad's pal had it...! 

[taunton-hobbit]

30 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

Because a Brownie Box camera can only do so much ... 

Cheeky ! It was actually one of these -

[Dad3353]

Just now, taunton-hobbit said:

Cheeky ! It was actually one of these -

... and..? 

...

 

[deepbass5]

I thought I remembered reading That Sting commissioned some 21" speakers as part of a multiple cab array when in the Police, I'm sure these were pictured in a mag I had possibly Bassist could have been in International musician, at the time. Anyone throw any light on that.  

[taunton-hobbit]

I think you are correct, but I can't find any images - Precision Devices do sell 21" drivers...

😎

[taunton-hobbit]

On 02/05/2021 at 18:08, taunton-hobbit said:

I had a dig about & I found this from 1981 (!) 

Shows my gig wagon, decks, and more importantly (bottom right) a view of one of my twin18 & Vitavox  boxes

(the other boxes are some of the Tannoy 15's that I bought from the Blind Beggar pub)

(why do we never take 'proper' pics?)

 

 

 Knew it was on here somewhere !

 

😎