Histrionic over-singing

[leftybassman392]

@Woodinblack. Ok, so we now know that you don't like operatic singing. Got it, thanks.

To identify it as a form of 'Histrionic oversinging' is stretching the meanings of both 'histrionic' and 'oversinging' to the point where they don't mean what they should anymore (not to mention demonstrating - with all due respect - a pretty limited understanding of what it is that classically trained singers do), but ok. You don't like so I guess any kind of random negative attribution will do.

Duly noted.

 

[Beedster]

On 17/04/2021 at 10:12, SteveXFR said:

I have a theory that they sing like this to avoid holding any note long enough for you to hear that they're never actually hitting the right notes.

Not a theory but a tried and trusted technique. Plenty of singers - and instrumentalists for that matter - can’t hold a single note at pitch for more than a few milliseconds. It’s why vibrato was invented

[EssentialTension]

13 hours ago, grandad said:

... Folk often mention Sinatra's technique and listening to him his diction is good and he never seems to strain to sing any note. There are a few others. ...

Matt Monro

[Woodinblack]

41 minutes ago, leftybassman392 said:

@Woodinblack. Ok, so we now know that you don't like operatic singing. Got it, thanks.

Good, glad we got there in the end!

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To identify it as a form of 'Histrionic oversinging' is stretching the meanings of both 'histrionic' and 'oversinging' to the point where they don't mean what they should anymore

Probably true if I had done that, yes.

I replied to Dads comment that those two women were good to listened to, I said I didn't like them or opera. I didn't realise that a throw away comment about me not liking opera would be taken so OTT and personally by you and I am sorry as I appear to have offended you personally

Quote

(not to mention demonstrating - with all due respect - a pretty limited understanding of what it is that classically trained singers do), but ok.

I know what classically trained singers do thanks, and there was no respect intended or implied in that. 

Quote

You don't like so I guess any kind of random negative attribution will do.

Wow. I guess lockdown really has been getting to people

 

Edited April 18, 2021 by Woodinblack

[Rich]

Oh FGS.

[Barking Spiders]

I'd probably put Glenn Hughes at the top of my list for worst offenders among male rock singers. I don't like his, or Coverdale's, vocals in Deep Purple Mk3, but worse are those on Black Country Communion and Dead Daisies tunage. I don't hear enough dynamic range, compared to rock vocalists like Layne Staley, Mike Patton or DP mk1 Ian Gillan

Edited April 18, 2021 by Barking Spiders

[TheGreek]

Watching TOTP the other evening reminded me of this...

 

[Dad3353]

5 hours ago, Beedster said:

... It’s why vibrato was invented

 I'm not sure that that's universally true, really, as vibrato, in most instruments (including the voice...) has a musical quality to it, and takes much skill to execute well. I'd agree that it can be a 'get out of jail card' for many, but to use it as a technique is not at all an admission of inability to stay in pitch. Just sayin'. 

[Beedster]

37 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

 I'm not sure that that's universally true, really, as vibrato, in most instruments (including the voice...) has a musical quality to it, and takes much skill to execute well. I'd agree that it can be a 'get out of jail card' for many, but to use it as a technique is not at all an admission of inability to stay in pitch. Just sayin'. 

Agreed to a point. Vibrato is certainly a skill, but less of a skill on some instruments, voice included, than holding a sustained note in tune, something I learned the hard way when I switched from orchestral violin to bluegrass fiddle, the former requiring lots of vibrato, the latter demanding sustained and often double stopped notes with none. Without using vibrato it’s a whole lot harder to sound in tune with other instruments/voices, requiring more technical control plus a better ear for your pitch and that of the others 

[SteveXFR]

1 hour ago, TheGreek said:

Watching TOTP the other evening reminded me of this...

 

There's sections in that song which are really good but as a whole piece it's so disjointed and in places, bloody awful that it's just not a good song. Some of it is weird for the sake of being weird.

[peteb]

2 minutes ago, SteveXFR said:

There's sections in that song which are really good but as a whole piece it's so disjointed and in places, bloody awful that it's just not a good song. Some of it is weird for the sake of being weird.

It was the (early) 70s...! 

[SteveXFR]

There was a lot of good prog (Rush, Pink Floyd) but some of it was just ruined by trying to fit everything in one song. That's why I'm sure the new Honda Civic Type R was styled by an ex prog musician, they put in every feature they could think of.

[Barking Spiders]

2 hours ago, TheGreek said:

Watching TOTP the other evening reminded me of this...

 

Yep, one of the most irritating and very repetitive longish 'songs' ever

[Woodinblack]

2 minutes ago, Barking Spiders said:

Yep, one of the most irritating and very repetitive longish 'songs' ever

Agreed but also because every time you want to do a prog band or something, someone wants to do that song, of which I am not a fan!

[TheGreek]

Am I mistaken or is the guitarist playing the wrong rhythm some of the time?

[Stub Mandrel]

20 hours ago, peteb said:

AS much as I love hearing great singers, they are a bit of a luxury in a way. You don't have to be have a Steve Perry in the band to produce some of the best rock and roll; sometimes being a stylist and an ace frontman can top being a great singer. Plenty of examples - off the top of my head: Joe Strummer, Mick Jagger, Dave Lee Roth, Bruce Springsteen, John Lennon and many, many others...! 

Indeed Neil Young is one of my favourite singers, what I can't stand is the new trend for artificially generated vocal special effects*.

 

*OK I'd include 'Computer Cowboy' and Transformer Man' in that category, although I appreciate the story behind the latter.

[Stub Mandrel]

2 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

 I'm not sure that that's universally true, really, as vibrato, in most instruments (including the voice...) has a musical quality to it, and takes much skill to execute well. I'd agree that it can be a 'get out of jail card' for many, but to use it as a technique is not at all an admission of inability to stay in pitch. Just sayin'. 

Joan Baez is a great singer, but I am not a big fan of her vibrato.

[Dad3353]

57 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

Joan Baez is a great singer, but I am not a big fan of her vibrato.

I agree (and don't go mentioning Nana Mouskouri, neither..! ).

[linear]

15 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

I agree (and don't go mentioning Nana Mouskouri, neither..! ).

How dare you, sir.  Next you'll be telling me moussaka is just an overly complicated lamb casserole.

[KevB]

21 hours ago, Barking Spiders said:

I'd probably put Glenn Hughes at the top of my list for worst offenders among male rock singers. I don't like his, or Coverdale's, vocals in Deep Purple Mk3, but worse are those on Black Country Communion and Dead Daisies tunage. I don't hear enough dynamic range, compared to rock vocalists like Layne Staley, Mike Patton or DP mk1 Ian Gillan

Gillan was mk2, but I'm letting you off with a caution this time.😀

[peteb]

23 hours ago, Barking Spiders said:

I'd probably put Glenn Hughes at the top of my list for worst offenders among male rock singers. I don't like his, or Coverdale's, vocals in Deep Purple Mk3, but worse are those on Black Country Communion and Dead Daisies tunage. I don't hear enough dynamic range, compared to rock vocalists like Layne Staley, Mike Patton or DP mk1 Ian Gillan

For me, Coverdale's vocals in DP Mk3 and his first two solo albums released just after, make him my all-time favourite vocalist! I'm not so keen on his higher pitched vocals of later years. 

I'm not sure where you are going with your point on 'dynamic range'. Surely you have been arguing that Glenn Hughes et al are using an inappropriate amount of dynamic range, just for the sake of it? Or are you saying that you prefer singers who sing in two different registers (like Axl Rose, Staley, etc) rather than the white soul stylings of Hughes, Coverversion, etc??

[Barking Spiders]

17 hours ago, peteb said:

For me, Coverdale's vocals in DP Mk3 and his first two solo albums released just after, make him my all-time favourite vocalist! I'm not so keen on his higher pitched vocals of later years. 

I'm not sure where you are going with your point on 'dynamic range'. Surely you have been arguing that Glenn Hughes et al are using an inappropriate amount of dynamic range, just for the sake of it? Or are you saying that you prefer singers who sing in two different registers (like Axl Rose, Staley, etc) rather than the white soul stylings of Hughes, Coverversion, etc??

I guess I mean Hughes and ilk's control of dynamics is a bit all over the place, a bit random. On the other hand I hear Mike Patton and it's controlled and on point.

[Sibob]

https://www.singwise.com/articles/vibrato-what-it-is-and-how-to-develop-it
 

Si

[leftybassman392]

3 hours ago, Sibob said:

https://www.singwise.com/articles/vibrato-what-it-is-and-how-to-develop-it
 

Si

Excellent piece. Thanks for posting.

[TrevorR]

On 16/04/2021 at 19:55, Nail Soup said:

In general I totally agree about OTT histrionic singing - can't stand it.

,..... BUT sometimes someone can make it work:

 

 

Really love the instrumental mix of this song. Remember it as the theme from Radio 4’s Weekending satire show. Vocal version, not so much!