Learning covers

[SteveXFR]

When learning covers do you try to copy the original exactly or do you sometimes simplify or change or add bits? 

[grandad]

Sometimes I do, then again, sometimes I don't. More often than not nowadays it's what I think fits. 

[machinehead]

I would only copy the original parts that are essential to the song and recognisably so.  Otherwise, I do my own thing.

Frank.

[Reggaebass]

When I’m learning a new song , after listening to it quite a few times, I play it through to get the general notes / scales  and feel , then I  break it down into sections until I’ve got every single note exactly as the original 

Edited March 12, 2021 by Reggaebass

[Nail Soup]

My covers band go for the exact arrangement by default .  Sometimes it doesn’t work out and we may drop the song or occasionally “do it our way”.

[TheGreek]

Am I having Deja Vu???

[Lozz196]

I prefer to learn it as the original, then make any changes as determined by the line up of the band. For example Fool For Your Lovin, on the solo as we only have one guitar rather than play the riff I just stick to root notes to keep it driving along. 

[TheLowDown]

I prefer to add essence of TLD.

I don't really like to copy word for word and note for note because it's worthless if it's the same, but has value if it's given a slant.

The whole point of me playing someone else's track is to learn from it in some way, so if I play it exactly then I'm no better than a robot doing a perfect rendition.

Edited March 12, 2021 by TheLowDown

[Downunderwonder]

A lot of tunes you will find the note for note bassline only properly grooves if the rhythm guitar cops it right on. Drums also. As soon as one of them wings it you can forget about note for note.

Generally it takes the guitar player to get with the programme and then the drummer will fall in.

[Phil Starr]

There's an old much longer thread on this, but then there are older longer threads on just about everything. It gives new people a go, it is a lot more personal and what the hell? It's still lockdown and talking s**t with friends is something we all do in normal times. Also it reminds me of times past when I was in a gigging band.....

It all depends is the only answer. As has been said already if your drummer doesn't hit the same patterns then you probably shouldn't play the same bass line. to a lesser extent that's true of all the rest of the band. I don't know why most bands play in the original keys most of the time if it isn't the singers best key, but there you go.

You learn a lot by dissecting music and note for note playing pushes you to places you might not otherwise go. It's a good thing to be able to play note for note even if you don't ever need to in live performance.

The second thing if you are in multiple bands or a really busy band with an ever changing set list then you are going to be under time pressure to get a song working. If you can play the chord changes and the rhythm then the rest of the band can get on with their own parts and the song goes in the set. Once you've played it a few times the song becomes yours and in my experience starts to drift as each band member adds a little flavouring of their own. Hopefully what works stays in and what doesn't gets quietly forgotten. I'm often surprised going back to originals by how much our versions differ.

However one of my real bugbears is people not learning the song. If you are in a covers band most of your audience want you to play the songs they know and love, in the main they want enough of the feel of the song to go on loving it. I've no problem at all with people who completely re-make the song but it bugs me when the usual reason for not making any attempt is actually laziness but justified as artistic integrity. You are in a covers band, you are an entertainer playing forty year old songs, take it seriously but get over yourself or go and write your own songs.

[Paul S]

I am in two bands that are kind of at opposite ends of the scale.  With my Bon Jovi tribute band I try to play as close to the original as I can - with the caveat that Hugh McDonald is a better bass player than I'll ever be so I just do my best.  In this context I think it is quite important to keep it accurate.

My other band is a blues/rock trio playing stuff as recorded by Cream, Hendrix, SRV, Jeff Healey, 3 Kings etc.  Generally speaking we do what blues/rock trios have always done - retain the essence of the song whilst finding some room to make our own interpretation.  Which I find very enjoyable.

[nilebodgers]

11 hours ago, SteveXFR said:

When learning covers do you try to copy the original exactly or do you sometimes simplify or change or add bits? 

I copy it exactly but with the proviso that I may leave some of the fills out if they don't key into other things going on on the music or are not very audible. e.g. if a song has 5 verses with very slightly different fills in each one I'll probably pick the one I like best and repeat that to make a common verse to remember. (or if they are all really good fills I may remember them all, but not play them in the original order)

The songs that give me the most trouble are ones that are basically one long improvisation e.g. the James Jamerson motown lines. There's nothing there that is that difficult to play (relatively), but there is so much variation that I just can't remember it all.

[Skybone]

"That's not how they did it on the album"

[Bobthedog]

My preferred answer to this is: If one is in a tribute band it makes sense to learn note for note (but which version - as released on a record (single / album?)? as performed in different guises whilst played live?). If in a covers band, not so much.

I try to learn the main publicly recognisable parts note for note, other less interesting parts are my close copy.

 

 

[Len_derby]

46 minutes ago, Skybone said:

"That's not how they did it on the album"

“Yeah, but they do on the live version on YouTube “......

And so it goes on.....🙄😂

[deepbass5]

Depends on your line up.  we were just Guitar, bass and drums and female singer. So often had to play an amalgam of what was on the original.

Guitar would have to play the guitar parts and pick up on brass and string fills, I would cover Bass and maybe Keyboard part if guitar is playing important other fills, Sometimes I would find I am playing a completely different line to the original bass but it works as a whole. As above some songs work for your line up others not. Some we thought would never work amazed us.   Just agree on what exact version you are doing and ensure everyone has a copy of that.

[Skybone]

44 minutes ago, Len_derby said:

“Yeah, but they do on the live version on YouTube “......

And so it goes on.....🙄😂

"But you missed the pause in the middle eight"

[Dan Dare]

2 hours ago, Phil Starr said:

it bugs me when the usual reason for not making any attempt is actually laziness but justified as artistic integrity

Have to say I agree with this sentiment. One should try to learn a piece as faithfully as possible (taking ability, etc into account - I struggle to recreate the playing of plenty of musicians because they're just better than me). If you want to change or simplify something, be honest if the reason you are doing so is because you cannot play it as it was originally. There's no shame in that.

[Doddy]

If I'm learning something for my own amusement I'm going to spend time getting it as close as I can because I normally look for lines that are going to make me work to improve.

If I'm learning tunes for a show,  it depends on a few things. I'll learn it dead on but you have to adapt to what everyone else is playing. You can't just plough through playing it as the record if the band has a specific arrangement. If there's charts, you play that even if it's different from what you learned.

If I have to learn a whole set in a day, then there's no way it will be perfect, but it will still be right. All the main lines will be there.

Out of interest, I've never heard or played in a cover band that plays things exact, even though they claim to.

[Phil Starr]

20 minutes ago, Doddy said:

 

Out of interest, I've never heard or played in a cover band that plays things exact, even though they claim to.

To be fair most of the original bands aren't going to match their own songs playing live either. Some of the tribute bands are outstanding, but that is a different skill altogether.

[alyctes]

We haven't got a drummer,. so it's all a bit moot.  My personal approach is to play something which works, i.e. not to do the song violence.  After that, all bets are off.  But I like some "interesting" covers anyway...  Devo doing 'Satisfaction', Polysix doing 'My Sharona'.

 

[Doddy]

20 minutes ago, Phil Starr said:

To be fair most of the original bands aren't going to match their own songs playing live either. Some of the tribute bands are outstanding, but that is a different skill 

I don't think playing in a tribute is much different than any other cover band. They still learn the songs the same way, they're just more anal about it.

[paul_5]

1 hour ago, Doddy said:

I don't think playing in a tribute is much different than any other cover band. They still learn the songs the same way, they're just more anal about it.

And earn more money.

[Ed_S]

My current main project is an originals band so we don't get massively scrutinised on the accuracy of any covers we throw into the set. Of course we try to maintain the feel of the original since that's probably why we want to cover it in the first place (we aren't politically driven and playing something just for its lyrical sentiment, for example) but it's more important that if you don't recognise the cover, you should just think it's another original that sits with the rest of the set. That generally means playing covers 'as us'.

That said, I've played a few one-off covers sets before and I also spend a vast amount of time with my cans on just playing along to stuff on Spotify for fun, so I know that my primary method of learning covers is to not actually learn them at all - I just become familiar with a song by listening to it and then play what I hear. If I try to learn a part, the one guarantee is that I'll forget it in time. If I just know a song then I'll generally remember it for years (especially if I remember the lyrics) and if I've only ever played it by ear then that's all I have to do again at any point in the future. A quick listen through an agreed version as a reference for structure and then play the instrument, not the part.

Of course I realise that what works for me doesn't work for everybody. In fact it all falls down gloriously even for me if I don't like the song in question, or if it's a style that I don't normally play and thus results in me drawing a blank for anything that really fits (other than maybe my bass back in its bag) but at that point if I really need to play the song in the short term then I'll just learn the part knowing full well that I'll forget it later.

[SteveXFR]

I asked because I play in an original metal band and because we don't have a lot of material we're going to play a couple less well known covers by Eyehategod and Down but because we have only one guitar Im thinking we'll need to make some changes, I might play a mix of bass and rhythm parts