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gareth

Ebay - buyers beware seller scams

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51 minutes ago, Beedster said:

I had a similar experience with eBay a few years ago. I bought an item not as described and different to the photos (vintage Fender neck in photos, completely different neck delivered). I opened a case, sent photos, seller accepted return, then when it was delivered the seller said I’d sent back a different neck to that on the listing, which I’d true as he’d sent me a different neck to that in the listing. Amazingly eBay supported him so I was left without money or neck. I get the sense that part of his scam was contacting eBay in detail and notifying them I wa trying Uk scam him, as they seemed to have so many details he had provided, almost as if he’d done it before! It took several long phone calls to people who seemed seriously under equipped for the job at eBay for someone there to finally accept what had happened and refund me. However, I must had the conversation below about 10 times.

’The seller says the neck you sent back was not the neck in the photos in the listing’

’That’s correct, the neck in the photo is not the neck he sent me, that’s why I’ve returned it, saying it was not as described’

’So if you have returned the wrong neck we cannot refund you’

’But the reason I’m returning it to him in the first place is because he sent the wrong neck’

’But the seller says you returned the wrong neck?’

Good luck with this Gareth, you’ll get there but you’ll have to deal with some clowns on the way. 

Yes I have had similar experiences on this case but I’m glad you got your money back

One thing I’ve learnt is that it’s a good idea to arrange a call back from ebay in the evening 

That way you are likely to get a call from an American on mountain time and these people are, I have found, the most helpful - for a start that seem capable of understanding what you say to them which I’ve always found to be an advantage 

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1 hour ago, Downunderwonder said:

I am not actually understanding the scam itself. A non delivery ought to mean a refund due the buyer?

The seller provided tracking details - see photo below - showing delivery 

The only slight problem is that delivery took place on 18/2/2021 which was three days before I pressed the BIN button

Do you follow?

The scam was to put an item up for sale at an attractive price, let someone(me the buyer) press the BIN and pay for the item, then to provide tracking details (for a different item) to fool ebay in to believing the item had been delivered and that they/PayPal would release my payment to the seller 

So the seller gets my money without actually having supplied me with the item 

And ebay fell for it!

They and me were conned and ebay’s buyer protection was worthless in this case

B8044CAF-BD97-4471-A82C-F32EA25AAD6B.png

Edited by gareth

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I am pretty sure your Ebay account must be hacked for him to have a conversation between himself and 'you' and/or pose as you in Ebay disputes.

Edited by Downunderwonder

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The seller seems to have vanished and there's no sign of the bass in ebay's completed item search.

Hope you get it sorted.

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8 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

I am pretty sure your Ebay account must be hacked for him to have a conversation between himself and 'you' and/or pose as you in Ebay disputes.

No it was not

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

How do you know?

If you read the transcripts you can see that all the questions ebay ask can be answered by the seller with the information ebay gave him following my pressing the BIN to enable him to send the bass to me

The transcript below confirms the caller was not logged on to an ebay account 

11462091-372E-4D1A-801D-C1A5ED89D2D7.jpeg

Edited by gareth

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16 hours ago, gareth said:

explained to ebay that I did not open case and several of the telecom transcripts are not me - I assume the seller pretended to be me

Explain how he pretends to be you to Ebay without signing into Ebay on another device as you!

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Downunderwonder said:

Explain how he pretends to be you to Ebay without signing into Ebay on another device as you!

See the transcript below where the ebay employee confirms that the caller is not logged on to an ebay account 
 

The point of this thread is to explain what happened to me in the hope that it may help others in their ebay dealings 

Let’s assume you’re right and my ebay account was hacked, don’t you think ebay should have asked the following questions before closing the case in the sellers favour:-

1. Why was the buyer opening a case for non delivery within hours of buying the item? 

2. How was it possible to open this case for non delivery within hours of buying? My experience is that you cannot open such cases until several days have passed since purchase.

3. How is it possible to buy something that according to the tracking was delivered three days before purchase?!?

4. The delivery postcode shown on the tracking was not mine

5. Below is an extract from the transcript which shows that the caller had not signed in to his (my) ebay account. Nevertheless the caller managed to get ebay to open a case

46D3C9F0-DEC9-4E9B-9552-0EAC7D8FA970.jpeg

Edited by gareth
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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Aidan63 said:

Maybe the scammer works/worked at Ebay ?

Yes possibly 

I was amazed at how he was able to find tracking details which showed a delivery to a postcode a mile from where I live 

The other funny thing is that my ebay account kept alternating between showing the shipper as fedex and royal mail

Edited by gareth

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On 01/03/2021 at 04:20, gareth said:

689F9E38-9020-4D8A-9250-E297BDF2DEB1.png

902E0016-0011-48D1-A8F0-86CCB2201B98.png

Busted links but I think I get it.

Seller conned Ebay in some chat help channel that he was you. He bludgeoned them into opening a not received complaint. Then he turns around as himself and says it's delivered no worries. Bizzare!

Seems like he saved himself the hassle of shipping you a box of polystyrene.

Does paypal still have the funds on hold?

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1 minute ago, Downunderwonder said:

Busted links but I think I get it.

Seller conned Ebay in some chat help channel that he was you. He bludgeoned them into opening a not received complaint. Then he turns around as himself and says it's delivered no worries. Bizzare!

Seems like he saved himself the hassle of shipping you a box of polystyrene.

Does paypal still have the funds on hold?

Yes they assure me they haven’t released the funds to him - or her - or whoever 

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This morning PayPal have refunded me

I very much hope that they didn’t pay the scammer too

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Interesting issue. I see on the chat sessions, its eBay_Guest, not your account. So I'm guessing what happened is, he phoned up to log the case (which was closed) and is relying on:

1. Some kind of "override" a human being has at eBay, to raise a case on behalf of someone, rather than do it online.
2. Override of the time period in between purchase and being able to lodge an undelivered case.
3. No manual check of delivery address, dates or item matching when an undelivered case is closed - just "a" delivery success message being able to close it.
4. The inability to log a second similar case, once a (fraudulent) case on the same issue is opened and closed.

I am guessing they either try to use AI to manage/close/decide on cases, rather than it being 100% looked at by humans; and/or when a human does look at it, they have a caseload of 100s per hour to get through, so they never really look at them properly and will skim-read then jump to a decision.

For eBay, it works (let's say) 90% of the time and saves a LOT of staff/admin costs in taking that approach. Of course they are not going to admit their process is flawed or wrong. They know it cuts corners, to save money.

I dare say, a lot of the time it decides in the buyer's favour too, even when the buyer was wrong and the seller was right. And that there's plenty of scams that exploit that avenue too.

In my experience, credit card companies don't operate like that, they have staff who DO have the time to look into chargebacks and cases such as these. So its still wise to pay via Paypal from Credit Card, because that offers at least some extra protection.

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42 minutes ago, paul_c2 said:

Interesting issue. I see on the chat sessions, its eBay_Guest, not your account. So I'm guessing what happened is, he phoned up to log the case (which was closed) and is relying on:

1. Some kind of "override" a human being has at eBay, to raise a case on behalf of someone, rather than do it online.
2. Override of the time period in between purchase and being able to lodge an undelivered case.
3. No manual check of delivery address, dates or item matching when an undelivered case is closed - just "a" delivery success message being able to close it.
4. The inability to log a second similar case, once a (fraudulent) case on the same issue is opened and closed.

I am guessing they either try to use AI to manage/close/decide on cases, rather than it being 100% looked at by humans; and/or when a human does look at it, they have a caseload of 100s per hour to get through, so they never really look at them properly and will skim-read then jump to a decision.

For eBay, it works (let's say) 90% of the time and saves a LOT of staff/admin costs in taking that approach. Of course they are not going to admit their process is flawed or wrong. They know it cuts corners, to save money.

I dare say, a lot of the time it decides in the buyer's favour too, even when the buyer was wrong and the seller was right. And that there's plenty of scams that exploit that avenue too.

In my experience, credit card companies don't operate like that, they have staff who DO have the time to look into chargebacks and cases such as these. So its still wise to pay via Paypal from Credit Card, because that offers at least some extra protection.

Yes I agree entirely and I think machines may have been over used - see even in the age of Ai, humans do still have their uses 😂😂

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What did you say to get that? That part is missing from the screen shots!

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1 hour ago, binky_bass said:

What did you say to get that? That part is missing from the screen shots!

The fraudster 'seller' put in false claims about delivery 'on behalf' of the OP using a hopeless authentication process to do it through Ebay help chat 

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9 hours ago, binky_bass said:

What did you say to get that? That part is missing from the screen shots!

It’s not in the screen shots or anywhere else

I called ebay and they explained that before starting an item not received case you need to message the seller first 

The only recent such case opened was the one opened by this fraudulent seller

So I’m being disciplined by ebay for a case opened by the fraudulent seller who in any case should not have been allowed to open the case as only buyers can open these cases

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Just now, gareth said:

It’s not in the screen shots or anywhere else

I called ebay and they explained that before starting an item not received case you need to message the seller first 

The only recent such case opened was the one opened by this fraudulent seller

So I’m being disciplined by ebay for a case opened by the fraudulent seller who in any case should not have been allowed to open the case as only buyers can open these cases

Fools... 

I had a minor issue with eBay yesterday, managed to speak to a decent chap from Utah within about 5 minutes or so, if you've not done that already, is it worth speaking to someone and getting your record expunged? 

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3 minutes ago, binky_bass said:

Fools... 

I had a minor issue with eBay yesterday, managed to speak to a decent chap from Utah within about 5 minutes or so, if you've not done that already, is it worth speaking to someone and getting your record expunged? 

I’ve tried but they are not interested 

A good tip that we’ve both found is that if you call them in the evenings the Americans are on duty so can guarantee being able to understand them and that they will understand you

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1 hour ago, gareth said:

?

Ebay has 2-step verification. This is an added security measure that sends a verification code to the ebay app on your mobile device. I'm not sure if this still works if you log in via a browser on a PC, perhaps I will set it up and test it.

https://community.ebay.co.uk/t5/Announcements/eBay-launches-a-new-2-step-verification-method/ba-p/6303827

It's not what I'd call 2-Factor Authentication: for that you would need a totally out-of-bound method for the verification code, such as Google Authenticator or Microsoft Authenticator. But it's better than just using a password.

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