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gareth

Ebay - buyers beware seller scams

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People might be aware of some seller scams occurring on ebay at the moment 

As a long term ebayer who has always thought ebay a safe place for buyers provided that you use PayPal with your PayPal linked to a credit card. This appears to give three levels of support if a dispute arises - ebay buyer protection, PayPal and credit card

Anyway last Sunday I clicked on a BIN and paid for the item immediately then the following happen

I am liasing with ebay about how  it’s possible for someone to press the BIN button pay for the item and then for the seller (yes the seller!!!) to be able con ebay in to opening a missing item case (which ebay says only buyers should be able to do), give them tracking details for another item showing delivery to a different postcode with delivery occurring three days before the BIN button was touched and then have the case closed in the sellers favour with the buyer being told he will not be getting a refund 

 

The above is what happened to me - I’m not joking

 

I explained to ebay that I did not open case and several of the telecom transcripts are not me - I assume the seller pretended to be me

 

I explained to ebay that the purchase shows as being delivered on 18/2/2021 but I only ordered and paid for the item 21/2/2021 and was in any case delivered to a different address

 

I explained that I think the seller is trying to perpetrate a fraud 

 

Ebay advised me not to contact the seller or message him on case details

 

The next thing I heard was that ebay had closed the case in the sellers favour and that I would not be getting a refund 

 

I then filed a case with PayPal 

 

This is my latest email to ebay 

 

“Annielyn

 

I am certain that no one had access to my account so there is no need to change the password

 

I believe the case was opened by the seller by contacting ebay and using the information he would have had from the sale to convince your staff/machines/algorithms that he was me

 

There is clearly something wrong with your systems that a fraudulent seller can pose as the buyer and have a case opened and closed in the sellers favour without the buyers knowledge or consent

 

I will not let this matter rest until it is properly dealt with

 

I am a long term ebayer and I’m very disappointed that you have still not answered my questions”

 

I have received no reply to this email 

 

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7 minutes ago, gareth said:

I explained to ebay that I did not open case and several of the telecom transcripts are not me - I assume the seller pretended to be me

I’ve never heard that one before, how did the seller manage to message himself 

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There has been 2 other S2's sold on there (using the same photos), one from UK and one from Sweden, neither are the seller you've had trouble with, that's weird. Hopefully if nothing else works, your CC company helps. Best of luck.

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17 minutes ago, Reggaebass said:

I’ve never heard that one before, how did the seller manage to message himself 

One of the transcripts of the seller pretending to be me in a conversation with ebay chat

 

 

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A08E1379-D48B-4D03-A5EE-2F3D28E9A806.png

Edited by gareth

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Just now, Reggaebass said:

I didn’t know eBay had a chat link, the seller has done a crafty move there 

You get the choice of a call back or an online chat

Whats frightening is the seller can use the information ebay have him about me as the buyer to convince ebay he is me and then to have a case opened and closed in the sellers favour

Ebay appear unwilling to take onboard this obvious problem in their systems

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Do you think it might be worth giving eBay a call to explain What’s happened, I phoned them once with a problem with my account and they were quite helpful 

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22 minutes ago, Reggaebass said:

Do you think it might be worth giving eBay a call to explain What’s happened, I phoned them once with a problem with my account and they were quite helpful 

I’ve spoken to many people at ebay and none of them will answer my question I’m afraid - how was it possible for the seller to pretend to be me and get a case for non delivery opened (which they’ve told me only buyers can do) and closed by providing tracking details that showed delivery occurred three days before I hit the BIN button and was in any case delivered to a different postcode 

 

Edited by gareth

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I reported this particular one a couple a weeks ago, sorry to hear you've been caught up in it @gareth

 

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37 minutes ago, EJWW said:

I reported this particular one a couple a weeks ago, sorry to hear you've been caught up in it @gareth

 

Thanks 

I am still trying to understand how ebay could allow the seller to pretend to be me (the buyer) and get a case for non delivery opened (which they’ve told me only buyers can do) and closed by providing tracking details that showed delivery occurred three days before I hit the BIN button and was in any case delivered to a different postcode 

Edited by gareth

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I guess the old adage "too good to be true" comes into play here... £450 odd BIN for a Status S2 should really ring alarm bells! 

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1 hour ago, binky_bass said:

I guess the old adage "too good to be true" comes into play here... £450 odd BIN for a Status S2 should really ring alarm bells! 

Yes of course

But it was worth the punt if the risk was small with buyer protection 

I am still trying to understand how ebay could allow the seller to pretend to be me (the buyer) and get a case for non delivery opened (which they’ve told me only buyers can do) and closed by providing tracking details that showed delivery occurred three days before I hit the BIN button and was in any case delivered to a different postcode 

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Doing a chargeback through your credit card will get paypal's attention. You provide the evidence to your bank, they contact PP, ''anything to say to dispute our cardholder's version of what happened?", ok then....refund made by chargeback.

Crucially, paypal's bank is now on the hook for the funds and it's their problem to get it back from the scammer or they simply take it out of paypal's account.

Each merchant has a 'merchant account' with their bank. There is a 'merchant fee' on every transaction going through credit cards. If something goes wrong you get your bank to do the chargeback. The bank of the dodgy merchant pays.

Paypal set themselves up so everyone effectively has a merchant account by putting themselves in the middle of the transaction. I expect if they goof and pay out to a scammer it will be them not their bank eating it because their bank knows exactly where to find them! They will be quite desperate to avoid telling you any of this! I expect it still says in small print at the bottom of the paypal website ''PayPal is Not a Bank, etc yadda yadda Registered in Singapore''.

Edited by Downunderwonder
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Wow it doesn't take a genius to figure out that an item can't be delivered before it's purchased. 

Disappointed in ebay with this one. 

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38 minutes ago, Downunderwonder said:

I am not actually understanding the scam itself. A non delivery ought to mean a refund due the buyer?

As i understand it, the scammer has managed to pose as the buyer and claim the item has been delivered.

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I had a similar experience with eBay a few years ago. I bought an item not as described and different to the photos (vintage Fender neck in photos, completely different neck delivered). I opened a case, sent photos, seller accepted return, then when it was delivered the seller said I’d sent back a different neck to that on the listing, which I’d true as he’d sent me a different neck to that in the listing. Amazingly eBay supported him so I was left without money or neck. I get the sense that part of his scam was contacting eBay in detail and notifying them I wa trying Uk scam him, as they seemed to have so many details he had provided, almost as if he’d done it before! It took several long phone calls to people who seemed seriously under equipped for the job at eBay for someone there to finally accept what had happened and refund me. However, I must had the conversation below about 10 times.

’The seller says the neck you sent back was not the neck in the photos in the listing’

’That’s correct, the neck in the photo is not the neck he sent me, that’s why I’ve returned it, saying it was not as described’

’So if you have returned the wrong neck we cannot refund you’

’But the reason I’m returning it to him in the first place is because he sent the wrong neck’

’But the seller says you returned the wrong neck?’

Good luck with this Gareth, you’ll get there but you’ll have to deal with some clowns on the way. 
 

EDIT

What I forgot to mention was that in every call with eBay I felt a strong sense that the person I was talking to was looking at a screen that had the word ‘SCAMMER’ flashing in big red letters, on which basis they assumed I was the guilty party. The seller had breached their algorithms by being both the complainant and guilty, as is the case here

Edited by Beedster
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This is a new one I haven’t seen before. 
 

Gareth, how did you get a copy of the ebay transcript?

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1 hour ago, Crawford13 said:

Wow it doesn't take a genius to figure out that an item can't be delivered before it's purchased. 

Disappointed in ebay with this one. 

Exactly me too

Thats the point of the thread

Obviously I took a gamble on pressing the BIN button but I did so thinking I was safe with ebay buyer protection

And I, like you, feel disappointed on ebay 

And doubly disappointed because they are denying their system has a problem in allowing to happen what I have described above

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38 minutes ago, Dazed said:

This is a new one I haven’t seen before. 
 

Gareth, how did you get a copy of the ebay transcript?

They sent it to me and of course as soon as I got it I rang them to say that it wasn’t me 

But guess what, if you call them, you don’t get a transcript!

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1 hour ago, Downunderwonder said:

Doing a chargeback through your credit card will get paypal's attention. You provide the evidence to your bank, they contact PP, ''anything to say to dispute our cardholder's version of what happened?", ok then....refund made by chargeback.

Crucially, paypal's bank is now on the hook for the funds and it's their problem to get it back from the scammer or they simply take it out of paypal's account.

Each merchant has a 'merchant account' with their bank. There is a 'merchant fee' on every transaction going through credit cards. If something goes wrong you get your bank to do the chargeback. The bank of the dodgy merchant pays.

Paypal set themselves up so everyone effectively has a merchant account by putting themselves in the middle of the transaction. I expect if they goof and pay out to a scammer it will be them not their bank eating it because their bank knows exactly where to find them! They will be quite desperate to avoid telling you any of this! I expect it still says in small print at the bottom of the paypal website ''PayPal is Not a Bank, etc yadda yadda Registered in Singapore''.

 

48 minutes ago, Beedster said:

I had a similar experience with eBay a few years ago. I bought an item not as described and different to the photos (vintage Fender neck in photos, completely different neck delivered). I opened a case, sent photos, seller accepted return, then when it was delivered the seller said I’d sent back a different neck to that on the listing, which I’d true as he’d sent me a different neck to that in the listing. Amazingly eBay supported him so I was left without money or neck. I get the sense that part of his scam was contacting eBay in detail and notifying them I wa trying Uk scam him, as they seemed to have so many details he had provided, almost as if he’d done it before! It took several long phone calls to people who seemed seriously under equipped for the job at eBay for someone there to finally accept what had happened and refund me. However, I must had the conversation below about 10 times.

’The seller says the neck you sent back was not the neck in the photos in the listing’

’That’s correct, the neck in the photo is not the neck he sent me, that’s why I’ve returned it, saying it was not as described’

’So if you have returned the wrong neck we cannot refund you’

’But the reason I’m returning it to him in the first place is because he sent the wrong neck’

’But the seller says you returned the wrong neck?’

Good luck with this Gareth, you’ll get there but you’ll have to deal with some clowns on the way. 

 

I think I will get my money back via the second and third line of defence I mentioned in the opening post - I have a PayPal dispute, which I have to wait until 13/3/2021 for them to resolve but I am hopeful that I will receive a refund from them - if not then I will contact my credit card provider

But the point of the thread is to highlight what a letdown ebay have been and to warn others 

Obviously I took a gamble on pressing the BIN button but I did so thinking I was safe with ebay buyer protection

And I, like you, feel disappointed on ebay 

And doubly disappointed because they are denying their system has a problem in allowing to happen what I have described above

Edited by gareth

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