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funkgod

bass prices, are some woth it

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Everybody at some time has looked at a price and said to themselves " WHAT? FOR THAT ?"

i know anything is worth what someone will pay for it, so im trying to think of basses that are really worth every penny against

others which i would call just taking the [email protected]@

so 1,  great value for money basses ? what is going at the mo which is great value for money ?

for example im just looking at the sire marcus miller on ebay for 360 buy it now looks great  and when you stack that against a mex jazz for now 150 more or even a usa jazz to me its looking pritty good spec wise, but are they really worth it ? ( im looking for a fretless)

and 2, which ones do you think is over inflated ?

so... would anyone pay £7,749.00 for this

https://www.peachguitars.com/fender-winter-2021-custom-shop-event/fender-custom-shop-1958-p-bass-heavy-relic-mb-vincent-van-trigt-faded-chocolate-.htm

 

Edited by funkgod

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No, they're not. But people with money seem to be able to be persuaded in parting with massive slabs of it for something functionally identical to a £99 Harley Benton.

'Fender' is one of a number of very expensive words, it would seem.

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I'll admit to frequently finding myself bemused at the the prices Fender Custom Shop can charge for a 'faithful hand built recreation' of a guitar or bass that was originally specifically designed to be mass produced on a factory production line for sale as a quality but relatively affordable instrument.

But someone must be paying those prices.

Edited by Cato
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I don't mind people being offered whatever decoration they like for their instruments - I'm looking forward to getting a bass in just the colour I want - and don't mind manufacturers and retailers earning honest money for it.

But it does feel a shame that it's usually the work of Fender's best builders that gets selected for this treatment. That price is made of three big slices: being made from Fender's highest quality parts, being patiently decorated in the fashion of our times, and being the work of a single craftsman. Personally, I prefer the idea of the very best guitar builders simply making the very best guitars, not spending half their time making the instrument look like something it is not.

Edited by Ricky Rioli
Manualcorrect of autocorrect
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You may consider Custom Shop prices outrageous but when you consider the instruments they're replicating - mass produced by largely unskilled labour using some of the cheapest, most plentiful woods at the time - sell for multiples of even Custom Shop prices, it might change your perspective, no?

What's worth considering is how cheap some instruments are, not just how expensive others are. There's a whole lot of exploitation built into your £99 Harley Benton. When you consider the cost of the raw materials alone, never mind the taxes and duties, the transportation, everyone taking their cut along the way, it does't leave much for the poor bastards who built it, does it? Comparing the cost of something made where worker's rights don't exist and living standards are barely above the level of vermin and using it as means to gripe about how expensive instruments made elsewhere is just a little misguided, in my opinion. 

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I know this isn't a 'relic rant' thread, but I just don't understand the relic look... in any other industry it would be classed as insanity - 'Come buy your brand new relic'd Ford, we've smashed it up a bit for you to make it look like you've rolled down a genuine Californian hillside'. 

Why pay 60% over the odds for a bass/guitar that's been sandpapered a bit and had a few rocks thrown at it. They just look like battered instruments to me so why pay more for damage?? I don't get it. 

Even with true vintage instruments, the better the condition the higher the value, so it just seems like the attraction is people wanting to make it appear like they've been gigging for years and are seasoned pro's when they likely are not. Just my personal 2 cents! Opinion is subjective and beauty is in the eye of the beholder so really who am I to judge!!

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If someone gave me the custom shop bass in the link the first thing I'd do is get it refinished and have all the rusty/tarnished hardware replaced, presumably drastically reducing it's resale value in the process.

Edited by Cato
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17 minutes ago, binky_bass said:

I know this isn't a 'relic rant' thread, but I just don't understand the relic look... in any other industry it would be classed as insanity - 'Come buy your brand new relic'd Ford, we've smashed it up a bit for you to make it look like you've rolled down a genuine Californian hillside'. 

Why pay 60% over the odds for a bass/guitar that's been sandpapered a bit and had a few rocks thrown at it. They just look like battered instruments to me so why pay more for damage?? I don't get it. 

Even with true vintage instruments, the better the condition the higher the value, so it just seems like the attraction is people wanting to make it appear like they've been gigging for years and are seasoned pro's when they likely are not. Just my personal 2 cents! Opinion is subjective and beauty is in the eye of the beholder so really who am I to judge!!

Stone wash jeans, Tie dye shirts, ripped jeans, distressed caps, shabby chic furniture, your old teddy with an ear hanging off and an eye missing you still like the look of, sandblast to buildings, turdburst and tort which is spawn of the devil, gold hardware - all just finishes and bits - I am pretty sure that only people that think that someone thinks they are a seasoned pro are people from the outside who don’t like the finish-I don’t look at someone with a pristine guitar and think newbie, OCD, doesn’t get out enough, he/she must gig a new guitar every week etc.

bit what @Doctor J resonates-I can’t put a guitar together from scratch for anything like the HB price even without not paying myself

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3 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

Stone wash jeans, Tie dye shirts, ripped jeans, distressed caps, shabby chic furniture, your old teddy with an ear hanging off and an eye missing you still like the look of, sandblast to buildings, turdburst and tort which is spawn of the devil, gold hardware - all just finishes

Tie Dye shirts aren't applicable as they are not purposefully damaged, my old teddy is my old teddy and has natural wear so isn't applicable, ripped jeans and distressed caps are applicable and fall (for me) into the same category as relic finishes. Why would you want to buy a pair of jeans already ripped up? Fashion is a sheeps game, whoever came up with the idea of selling pre-ripped jeans has been laughing 12 hours a day since selling the first pair. 

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For me at the moment the new Rickenbacker 4005xc is heading the 'not worth it' group, in fact it's an absolute pee take. 

The original 4005s do sell for ludicrous money, we're talking between 8 and 10 grand roughly, and Rickenbacker have finally caved in to requests to remake it. But they've made something which is different to a 4005, which is fair enough, but I think their pricing is a desperate attempt to ride the coat tails of the crazy vintage 4005 market. 

They're now available new for £5.5k.

https://www.kennysmusic.co.uk/rickenbacker-4005xc-bass-amber-fireglo?utm_source=tag&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_campaign=1795&source=googleps

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Just now, binky_bass said:

Tie Dye shirts aren't applicable as they are not purposefully damaged, my old teddy is my old teddy and has natural wear so isn't applicable, ripped jeans and distressed caps are applicable and fall (for me) into the same category as relic finishes. Why would you want to buy a pair of jeans already ripped up? Fashion is a sheeps game, whoever came up with the idea of selling pre-ripped jeans has been laughing 12 hours a day since selling the first pair. 

Tie Dye probably start off plain white and is then coloured - so it’s a finish - you may want a replica Teddy to protect the original Teddy - Turdburst and tort is still the spawn of Satan-but it’s just a finish, no pretences of patina or grandeur, it’s just a finish

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1 minute ago, binky_bass said:

Tie Dye shirts aren't applicable as they are not purposefully damaged, my old teddy is my old teddy and has natural wear so isn't applicable, ripped jeans and distressed caps are applicable and fall (for me) into the same category as relic finishes. Why would you want to buy a pair of jeans already ripped up? Fashion is a sheeps game, whoever came up with the idea of selling pre-ripped jeans has been laughing 12 hours a day since selling the first pair. 

You might not want to buy these things but plenty do. The relic thing happens everywhere including the motor industry. 'Rat Look' is most definitely a thing, along with 'Shabby Chic' furniture, distressed look clothing, vintage look garden accessories, the list goes on. In most fields of retail there will be a vintage, worn in version available to those that do want it. For those that don't I assume it's as simple as not buying it. 

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28 minutes ago, Doctor J said:

You may consider Custom Shop prices outrageous but when you consider the instruments they're replicating - mass produced by largely unskilled labour using some of the cheapest, most plentiful woods at the time - sell for multiples of even Custom Shop prices, it might change your perspective, no?

What's worth considering is how cheap some instruments are, not just how expensive others are. There's a whole lot of exploitation built into your £99 Harley Benton. When you consider the cost of the raw materials alone, never mind the taxes and duties, the transportation, everyone taking their cut along the way, it does't leave much for the poor bastards who built it, does it? Comparing the cost of something made where worker's rights don't exist and living standards are barely above the level of vermin and using it as means to gripe about how expensive instruments made elsewhere is just a little misguided, in my opinion. 

This sentiment is all well and good but how about the clothes we all wear, the smartphones we all use, the pc/laptop/whatever we all look on the internet/run most aspects of our lives with?  Pretty much any consumer goods will tell the same story.  This is all hard baked into society now and there is pretty much nothing to be done about it - we, collectively as consumers, don't want to pay.  There is nothing that any of us individually can do about it so this guilt rant serves no real purpose.

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2 minutes ago, Maude said:

You might not want to buy these things but plenty do. The relic thing happens everywhere including the motor industry. 'Rat Look' is most definitely a thing, along with 'Shabby Chic' furniture, distressed look clothing, vintage look garden accessories, the list goes on. In most fields of retail there will be a vintage, worn in version available to those that do want it. For those that don't I assume it's as simple as not buying it. 

Before this deteriorates into people selectively paying attention to perceived negatives, (as seems to be so often the case on this forum with certain folk!) may I just quote myself from my first post:

Just my personal 2 cents! Opinion is subjective and beauty is in the eye of the beholder so really who am I to judge!!

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Something is only “worth” what someone else is willing to pay for it.

Edited by tegs07

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6 minutes ago, binky_bass said:

Before this deteriorates into people selectively paying attention to perceived negatives, (as seems to be so often the case on this forum with certain folk!) may I just quote myself from my first post:

Just my personal 2 cents! Opinion is subjective and beauty is in the eye of the beholder so really who am I to judge!!

I know it’s only an opinion, knickers won’t get twisted, but you did also say that they who play a relic’d bass want to give the impression they are seasoned pro’s or something they are not, when they don’t.

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In a serious response to the very first post:

IMO yes, a Sire is worth easily it's new price or its second hand price. Many on here will back that up. 

Is an MIM Fender worth 150 more? No. Its not a "better" bass, but if you are a brand snob or worse, you are dictated to by brand snobs (i.e. Your "band leader" insists you have a Fender P because they don't trust other instruments) then that extra 150 may be worth it for you. 

What's ludicrous? Rickenbackers prices seem to sky rocket and they're renowned for not being very well put together, though they have a definite own sound and brand mystique/ credibility that you cant get anywhere else. Fender Custom shop prices to me seem crazy, but I've never played one so it's a superficial thing for now. 

I think the best way to understand relative value would be to play a load of basses one after the other all through the same amp and by a combination of sound and feel you'll make your own mind up about value. It's not as easy as when you need a laptop and you just compare RAM, disk size, processor power and screen size and get the most bang for your buck off those stats, the variables in a bass have completely different value to different users, e.g. My "best neck ever" on my Stingray may be uncomfortable to you. 

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3 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

Oh that’s harsh.......... the use injuries are not nice believe me, but I know no malice was meant

Fair point. I'll delete it. 

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12 minutes ago, Maude said:

For me at the moment the new Rickenbacker 4005xc is heading the 'not worth it' group, in fact it's an absolute pee take. 

The original 4005s do sell for ludicrous money, we're talking between 8 and 10 grand roughly, and Rickenbacker have finally caved in to requests to remake it. But they've made something which is different to a 4005, which is fair enough, but I think their pricing is a desperate attempt to ride the coat tails of the crazy vintage 4005 market. 

They're now available new for £5.5k.

https://www.kennysmusic.co.uk/rickenbacker-4005xc-bass-amber-fireglo?utm_source=tag&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_campaign=1795&source=googleps

Not sure I agree with you on this one. £5.5k for "a bass" allows the comparison with the now-famous £99 Harley Benton.

But £5.5k for a genuinely uber-rare, unusual, iconic, high-quality instrument? That's different. 

Anyone who buys this instrument can rely on decades of Rickenbacker history that they won't suddenly launch a range of Made In Nigeria own-brand cheap copies, won't suddenly ramp up production into tens of thousands a year. It's a much overused expression, but this is genuinely an investment bass. Buy one of these and keep it pristine, sure it might go down in value but then again it might hold its own, and it might even appreciate over time.

If demand oustrips supply by a sufficient extent then all sorts of strange things are possible. Just look at the price of old Wals, or of electricity in Texas during a freak blizzard.

 

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4 minutes ago, binky_bass said:

Before this deteriorates into people selectively paying attention to perceived negatives, (as seems to be so often the case on this forum with certain folk!) may I just quote myself from my first post:

Just my personal 2 cents! Opinion is subjective and beauty is in the eye of the beholder so really who am I to judge!!

Apologies if it came across as a dig, it wasn't intended that way, and I hope I'm not one of the "certain folk" you refer to as I try not get into debates. 

I've probably quoted the wrong reply really as my post was more in reply to the quote below and was just pointing out that it definitely exists in many industries. 

40 minutes ago, binky_bass said:

I know this isn't a 'relic rant' thread, but I just don't understand the relic look... in any other industry it would be classed as insanity 

 

Back to bass prices. 🙂👍

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14 minutes ago, Paul S said:

This sentiment is all well and good but how about the clothes we all wear, the smartphones we all use, the pc/laptop/whatever we all look on the internet/run most aspects of our lives with?  Pretty much any consumer goods will tell the same story.  This is all hard baked into society now and there is pretty much nothing to be done about it - we, collectively as consumers, don't want to pay.  There is nothing that any of us individually can do about it so this guilt rant serves no real purpose.

Oh? How many smartphones are manufactured in the west? You have a choice, when it comes to instruments and the point of the entire thread is that the choice exists, hence the skewed comparisons.

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2 minutes ago, Happy Jack said:

Not sure I agree with you on this one. £5.5k for "a bass" allows the comparison with the now-famous £99 Harley Benton.

But £5.5k for a genuinely uber-rare, unusual, iconic, high-quality instrument? That's different. 

Anyone who buys this instrument can rely on decades of Rickenbacker history that they won't suddenly launch a range of Made In Nigeria own-brand cheap copies, won't suddenly ramp up production into tens of thousands a year. It's a much overused expression, but this is genuinely an investment bass. Buy one of these and keep it pristine, sure it might go down in value but then again it might hold its own, and it might even appreciate over time.

If demand oustrips supply by a sufficient extent then all sorts of strange things are possible. Just look at the price of old Wals, or of electricity in Texas during a freak blizzard.

 

I agree that as an investment it might be a shrewd purchase, going on current original 4005 prices. But as an instrument I'm not sure it's worth double the price of a 4003, which is arguably a better instrument, although that's obviously subjective. I adore the 4005 but it's definitely a flawed design. The differences on the new xc might improve on these, but they might also impact on it's future value as it's not like the vintage 4005.

Only time will tell I suppose. 

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Bass making at Rickenbacker, Sandberg, Custom shop etc levels is skilled Labour.

How much would you pay for a plumber for a week for example?

If it’s a weeks work, subtract that cost, then subtract materials, then built in wear and tear to tools, consumables, electricity bills, property rent/mortgage - then a wage for admin non luthier staff - then we should allow profit.

Its not that bad in a lot of ways....

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1 minute ago, Cuzzie said:

Bass making at Rickenbacker, Sandberg, Custom shop etc levels is skilled Labour.

How much would you pay for a plumber for a week for example?

If it’s a weeks work, subtract that cost, then subtract materials, then built in wear and tear to tools, consumables, electricity bills, property rent/mortgage - then a wage for admin non luthier staff - then we should allow profit.

Its not that bad in a lot of ways....

Again, I agree, to a degree. If £5.5k (Rick 4005xc) was a reasonable recompense for the labour and materials involved then why don't all their guitars and basses start at that price. They obviously feel £2.5k is fair for a 4003 so why double it for the 4005, unless cashing in on the vintage values, which they're entitled to, it's theirs after all. 

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