Finding "The One"

[mikel]

I have to say, after years of playing bass, that most basses simply sound like, well....a bass to me. Amplified and in a band setting they pretty much sound the same to my ears. Apart from a Rick I can rarely tell any difference. As long as its playable and not too heavy anything would be my one.

[chris_b]

The point is, most bass players work within a narrow band of tone.  Does the 80/20 rule fit here? It probably does, so 80% of the bass players (pro and semi-pro) are using 20% of the available tone. The differences in tone between these players is small but most are differentiated by what they play, not how they sound.

Players like Chris Squire and JJ Burnell are in the 20%. They are way outside of the mainstream of bass players tones. Maybe that is what makes them stand out, but interestingly, their sound is not as widely copied as their popularity would suggest.

There are bass players all over the world who got the gig because they were a mate, but I know of no bass players who get gigs just because they sound good. Good players get gigs, no matter how they sound, because of what and how they play.

 

 

[diskwave]

8 minutes ago, chris_b said:

Good players get gigs, no matter how they sound, because of what and how they play.

Another great comment. I think about all the different rigs and basses I've played and its always the same responses from band mates...."sounds good man" and "nice groove mate".....I have never had anyone on stage or off stage say..."bass sounds crap, old fruit".

[EssentialTension]

Over close to fifty years of gigging, I have played probably thirty different basses at gigs. Even the cheap ones worked fine.

[Doddy]

2 hours ago, chris_b said:

There are bass players all over the world who got the gig because they were a mate, but I know of no bass players who get gigs just because they sound good. Good players get gigs, no matter how they sound, because of what and how they play.

I agree for the most part, but I think a players sound is important. Will Lee talks about how he did the demos for Billy Cobhams Spectrum but didn't do the actual album because Cobham didn't like his sound at the time.

[4000]

5 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

And what did the pedal board of JJ look like..?  A Ric plugged straight into a console sounds like a bass, just like a 'P'. The rest is in the playing style (the fingers, or thumb...). 

But Chris Squire plugged into an amp - without using any of his pedals - still sounds nothing like JJ. And playing style - and amps, effects etc -  are all part of the sound. Chris Squire was quoted at one point as saying he never DI-d because “ it takes away everything you’ve done to achieve your sound in the first place”.

If someone  just wants to sound like “a bass”, that’s fine. But not everyone does. 

[4000]

6 minutes ago, Doddy said:

I agree for the most part, but I think a players sound is important. Will Lee talks about how he did the demos for Billy Cobhams Spectrum but didn't do the actual album because Cobham didn't like his sound at the time.

Absolutely. I don’t believe for a minute someone in control of a session would say “you know what, who cares what the bass sounds like!”

[Dad3353]

1 minute ago, 4000 said:

...If someone  just wants to sound like “a bass”, that’s fine. But not everyone does. 

Quite, but how much is down to the instrument alone..? Some, I'll allow, but little in the Great Scheme of Things, as is attested to by other replies here. Mr Squire playing sounds pretty much like Mr Squire, whatever bass he's using, as does Mr Jamerson. There are few (some, but few...) world-stage bassists that play with 'The One'. They chop and change, and still sound much the same as themselves. 

[Dad3353]

1 minute ago, 4000 said:

Absolutely. I don’t believe for a minute someone in control of a session would say “you know what, who cares what the bass sounds like!”

That's a bit of an exaggeration. It's not the same as saying 'You'll need a long-scale Dingwall for this next number'. Some drummers turn up with a van-load of snares to try out; others sit down and play.

[4000]

Just now, Dad3353 said:

That's a bit of an exaggeration. It's not the same as saying 'You'll need a long-scale Dingwall for this next number'. Some drummers turn up with a van-load of snares to try out; others sit down and play.

And who said that? Not me. But many bassists will take a bunch of basses to sessions, to see which works best. 
 

[Dad3353]

1 minute ago, 4000 said:

And who said that? Not me. But many bassists will take a bunch of basses to sessions, to see which works best. 
 

And quite right too. But if none are 'The One', I expect they'll get what's required from one of the bunch, just the same, most of the time. Another bassist might arrive with just one and nail it, too.

[4000]

5 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

Quite, but how much is down to the instrument alone..? Some, I'll allow, but little in the Great Scheme of Things, as is attested to by other replies here. Mr Squire playing sounds pretty much like Mr Squire, whatever bass he's using, as does Mr Jamerson. There are few (some, but few...) world-stage bassists that play with 'The One'. They chop and change, and still sound much the same as themselves. 

Oh I’d agree Chris always sounds like Chris; however sometimes he sounds more like Chris than others.
My point still stands though - even though the wink seems to have been ignored - in that not everyone wants to sound the same. 

[Dad3353]

Just now, 4000 said:

Oh I’d agree Chris always sounds like Chris; however sometimes he sounds more like Chris than others.
My point still stands though - even though the wink seems to have been ignored - in that not everyone wants to sound the same. 

... and so many folks think (or want to think...) they sound 'different'..! 

...

 

[4000]

2 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

And quite right too. But if none are 'The One', I expect they'll get what's required from one of the bunch, just the same, most of the time. Another bassist might arrive with just one and nail it, too.

I think you have a different idea of “The One” than I have. My “the One” is the bass that I feel most connected to and best achieves the sound I hear in my head. It’s the instrument I’ve bonded most with and best expresses what I wish to express. No other factors come into it. And even then, it doesn’t mean it will be right for everything. That isn’t my “The One” at all, I don’t know where you’ve got that idea from. 

[4000]

3 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

... and so many folks think (or want to think...) they sound 'different'..! 

...

 

Well, most of the time I’d fall more into the JJB /Squire camp than the more typical thing. But there are many, many levels of ‘different’. 😉

[chris_b]

31 minutes ago, Doddy said:

Will Lee talks about how he did the demos for Billy Cobhams Spectrum but didn't do the actual album because Cobham didn't like his sound at the time.

I agree. Many things that can lose you the gig. It's a fickle business.

PS but why was Will Lee there in the first place?

 

Edited February 8, 2021 by chris_b

[Woodinblack]

iTunes is currently playing tool (its on random). The bass sound is very different from James Jamerson. If James Jamerson had done the bassline for this song (incidently Rosetta Stoned), it would have sounded completely wrong, and would have been a completely different song.  Also, if Justin Chancellor had taken James Jamersons bass to play it, it still wouldn't have sounded right (although obviously closer), so it isn't all in the fingers.

 

[prowla]

I don't buy this idea that the bass & equipment doesn't make a difference; it's baloney IMHO.

Chris Squire is being used as an example of a case where the kit is irrelevant, but he had a finely tuned ear and there's a video of him saying that the Rickenbacker CS tribute models sound "nothing like" (sic.) his original.

So no, the idea that the bass, amp, whatever is irrelevant to the sound is just bunkum.

Many musicians look for a sound which differentiates them; why would they do that if it made no difference whatsoever?

Of course, if the greats had chosen a different sound, then there is a high likelihood that they would still be the greats.

[Al Krow]

On 06/02/2021 at 14:49, TheGreek said:

Ideally I'm looking for a well balanced, fretted 34" 5er with a good low B, active PJ/HP/ SimS pups, and RW/Ebony board. None of the three I own fulfil all my wants - what do I do? Soldier on and compromise or find another bass which fits all the above criteria?

Mick - you could soldier on OR just get yourself one of these...Yamaha BB735A Bass Guitar | Bass Gear Magazine

"features 5 strings spanning 21 frets on a rosewood fretboard, topping a 5-piece mahogany and maple neck mated to a 3-piece (front to back) alder/maple/alder body, employs a great 3-band EQ circuit (switchable to passive) fed by passive Yamaha AlNiCo P/J pickups"

[diskwave]

I think most here are missing the point. There are basically with some subtle variations  three bass tones. Jaco, Squire and everyone else.

The Jaco tone is used by cruisers, pit guys and jazzers across the board with subtle variations.

The Squire "clank" and variations is used by Punks, Metal heads etc etc

And the rest which is a soft P bassy type of tone by just about everybody else.

There are no other radically different tones from those listed...unless you use a flanger reverb, or whah peddle all the time.

 

 

 

[4000]

56 minutes ago, prowla said:

 

Chris Squire is being used as an example of a case where the kit is irrelevant, but he had a finely tuned ear and there's a video of him saying that the Rickenbacker CS tribute models sound "nothing like" (sic.) his original.

So no, the idea that the bass, amp, whatever is irrelevant to the sound is just bunkum.

Well I haven’t played Chris’s Rick, but I can attest to the fact that of all the Rics I’ve owned, my 2 CSs sounded less like him than most of the others. 😉 

I think the point about a finely tuned ear is important. Some people can hear even subtle differences between instruments, even in the mix, but simply don’t care. It’s not important to them. Some genuinely can’t tell the difference, and many are probably at some point in between. But there are also those who can tell the difference and who do care, although admittedly this can be something of a double-edged sword. 

 

[Crawford13]

15 minutes ago, greavesbass said:

I think most here are missing the point. There are basically with some subtle variations  three bass tones. Jaco, Squire and everyone else.

The Jaco tone is used by cruisers, pit guys and jazzers across the board with subtle variations.

The Squire "clank" and variations is used by Punks, Metal heads etc etc

And the rest which is a soft P bassy type of tone by just about everybody else.

There are no other radically different tones from those listed...unless you use a flanger reverb, or whah peddle all the time.

 

 

 

Can't help but think this is a trolling comment... 

[diskwave]

12 minutes ago, Crawford13 said:

Can't help but think this is a trolling comment... 

Nope been at it a long time and Ive just bought  another bass so Im def not a troll.....But when I see young players today fretting over "their tone" I have to have a chortle...cause its all been done, there is no "new bass tone"....How can there be. We've had the bridge PU punch of Jaco, Bernie Edwards, John Taylor and John Patitucci, the synth bass of Jan Hammer with the clank of Geddy and Squire and the smooth woody P tone on a million top ten hits....Guess if you have a new tone we havent heard before then maybe we ought to be all ears.

[4000]

8 minutes ago, greavesbass said:

Nope been at it a long time and Ive just bought  another bass so Im def not a troll.....But when I see young players today fretting over "their tone" I have to have a chortle...cause its all been done, there is no "new bass tone"....How can there be. We've had the bridge PU punch of Jaco, Bernie Edwards, John Taylor and John Patitucci, the synth bass of Jan Hammer with the clank of Geddy and Squire and the smooth woody P tone on a million top ten hits....Guess if you have a new tone we havent heard before then maybe we ought to be all ears.

But what about people? There are only 3 types of people, tall, short and in between. 😉

[Crawford13]

8 minutes ago, greavesbass said:

Nope been at it a long time and Ive just bought  another bass so Im def not a troll.....But when I see young players today fretting over "their tone" I have to have a chortle...cause its all been done, there is no "new bass tone"....How can there be. We've had the bridge PU punch of Jaco, Bernie Edwards, John Taylor and John Patitucci, the synth bass of Jan Hammer with the clank of Geddy and Squire and the smooth woody P tone on a million top ten hits....Guess if you have a new tone we havent heard before then maybe we ought to be all ears.

In all honesty you haven't mentioned a single musician from the last 30 years so perhaps it's not the "young" players chasing their tone that need to open their ears. 

Just to get you started:

 

 

All different bass tones, not as the ones you have described above.