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A post brexit question.


BaggyMan

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3 minutes ago, geoham said:

I'm absolutely not sure of anything... an interesting read.

The points about VAT being charged at the point of sale for goods under £135 is massive and should prevent delays and handling fees on these. However, based on my quick read of this, I think what I described will still be applicable for goods exceeding £135. 

It'll be interesting to see how the likes of Thomann deal with this, since the £135 is per consignment - so a £120 bass shipped alone would require them to charge UK VAT, but add on a £20 of strings to the same order and VAT will instead be charged upon import.

I think I'll be buying locally to avoid problems, and I suspect this may be their intention.

George

 

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3 minutes ago, Leonard Smalls said:

That's just a policy paper. It doesn't have the force of Law. I was trying to attach an up to date link but all the HMRC links are dead.

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9 minutes ago, ambient said:

I’m wrong, I apologise. There’s 2% duty on them too. I’ll amend my post.

3B56DF27-218D-4713-BAE3-6DA012243C41.png

Choosing an inappropriate moment to derail this thread, I scrolled to the bottom of your quote image and all I could think of was....

I’m sorry 😂🤣

13AE5CC8-1CD0-4863-A873-4CBC663AB188.jpeg

3B914B77-03FB-4935-B8FF-4976D96DE051.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Steve Browning said:

If you sell a bass to someone in France you charge them as normal. When you send it you fill out a Customs form and the French tax authority charge your customer French VAT on the import. The value base is the cost + carrier cost. You won't see any of those additional costs.

So in other words Steve, it’s pretty similar to buying an item from the US?

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from the go

3 hours ago, Leonard Smalls said:

interesting section from this reads..

The changes will not apply to consignments of goods containing excise goods or to non- commercial transactions between private individuals. Existing rules will continue to apply for these transactions.  does that mean no import tax? 

 

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So the status seems to be, no import duty for non business transactions, but VAT will be charged locally, probably paid by the courier who will add a handling charge based upon the value of the item, if its more expensive than £135.

 

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5 minutes ago, BaggyMan said:

from the go

interesting section from this reads..

The changes will not apply to consignments of goods containing excise goods or to non- commercial transactions between private individuals. Existing rules will continue to apply for these transactions.  does that mean no import tax? 

 

That’s how I read what I posted from the Gov website. You’ll obviously pay VAT - which you didn’t before on used goods - plus a handling charge. I’m pretty certain there’s no additional duty.

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so working on past experience of 'handling fees'

What would have cost £1000 is now £1210   (assuming a 10 handling fee)

 

 

worth noting bearing in mind there are french/spanish and sometime Italian sellers on the forum.  Good chat thanks.

 

 

Edited by BaggyMan
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Am I correct in understanding that, while the seller (let's say in the UK) still advertises and sells the (2nd hand) item at the agreed price, the buyer (let's say in Belgium) will be required to pay local VAT on the declared cost and shipping + admin cost? So the cost to the buyer goes up by around 25%.

I think this could hit sales of cross channel BC classifieds on 2nd hand gear, won't it?

 

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3 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

As I have said, this is nothing but a policy document. It tells us nothing about the Law. Do not use it as any form of guidance. It is nothing of the sort.

There's a link to the actual rules in the policy document...  https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-and-overseas-goods-sold-directly-to-customers-in-the-uk

Yer actual rules appear to be:

Consignments valued at £135 or less

The seller must charge and account for VAT at the point of sale, unless the consignment is a business to business sale and the customer has given them their UK VAT registration number.

To charge and account for VAT the seller will need to:

For goods supplied into Northern Ireland from outside the UK and EU, low value consignment relief will no longer apply and the seller will be liable to account for the VAT on the VAT return instead of at the border.

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Let me give you 2 examples (pre and post Brexit)

Private purchase

Pre

You pay £1000 on the BC forum to a seller in Germany. They send you the bass and that's it.

Post

You pay £1000 to the seller and you then get a bill for VAT on the 1000 + delivery cost + the £10 handling fee. Let's say delivery was £30 - you end up paying £1216 (£206 VAT plus the admin).

Business purchase (not Thomann for this purpose)

Pre

You pay £1190 + £30 delivery (yes, German VAT was 16% for 6 months but that's not important for this illustration). The total is £1220.

Post

You pay £1000 (the net value) + delivery + handling. The cost is as above £1216

The net effect is that the purchase through BC now costs you a lot more.

 

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15 minutes ago, Newfoundfreedom said:

How many different times and different threads are we going to go over this? 

Given, that previously the question of import charges was asked on average once a month when the information was well known and plenty of people had actual first hand experience of the process, do not be surprised that there are now multiple threads and most people still don't know what is going to happen when they buy and sell items to/from countries outside of the UK.

AFAICS what @Steve Browning says should be correct, but right now it is just one (well-informed) person's interpretation of the rules. How others including HMRC actually interpret them once goods start moving may not be the same. 

Personally I wouldn't want to buy or sell anything aboard for a good few months until I've seen what others are actually experiencing.

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Just now, BigRedX said:

Given, that previously the question of import charges was asked on average once a month when the information was well known and plenty of people had actual first hand experience of the process, do not be surprised that there are now multiple threads and most people still don't know what is going to happen when they buy and sell items to/from countries outside of the UK.

AFAICS what @Steve Browning says should be correct, but right now it is just one (well-informed) person's interpretation of the rules. How others including HMRC actually interpret them once goods start moving may not be the same. 

Personally I wouldn't want to buy or sell anything aboard for a good few months until I've seen what others are actually experiencing.

Wise words. It makes sense to delay, if you can. Aside from anything else, HMRC are not ready for it. Let the dust settle.

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