stevie Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 (edited) 22 hours ago, Monkey Steve said: Without trying to steer this into a political debate, as I understand it, all the restrictions come from the EU side, and they dug their heels in during the trade negotiations. Parliament can debate it for as long as it wants but it's not in their power to change this It was clear from the outset that leaving the EU would end freedom of movement. It's also what the country voted for - twice. As Nigel put it, no more "spending British taxes on foreigners' jobs". So it's hardly a case of the EU digging its heels in. Why should the EU make an exception for our touring musicians? No UK touring musicians means more work for European musicians. We wanted control of our borders. We've got control of our borders. While I sympathise with the musicians who are about to lose their livelihoods, they are not unique in that respect. That petition is another example of the UK wanting its cake and eating it. It's pathetic, delusionary, has absolutely no chance of success, and I won't be signing it. Edited January 1, 2021 by stevie 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knicknack Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 2 minutes ago, stevie said: It was clear from the outset that leaving the EU would end freedom of movement. It's also what the coutry voted for - twice. As Nigel put it, no more "spending British taxes on foreigners' jobs". So it's hardly a case of the EU digging its heels in. Why should the EU make an exception for our touring musicians? No UK touring musicians means more work for European musicians. We wanted control of our borders. We've got control of our borders. While I sympathise with the musicians who are about to lose their livelihoods, they are not unique in that respect. That petition is another example of the UK wanting its cake and eating it. It's pathetic, delusionary, has absolutely no chance of success, and I won't be signing it. It's more half the UK wanting it's cake, and the other half eating it. I'm not sure calling musicians who are at this point battered and bruised from the toughest of times pathetic for doing anything they can to just try and keep some hope is the most appropriate response on a forum about music... I agree that the EU has absolutely no obligation to help us, but you have to realise that the vast majority of signees didn't want any restrictions either way from the start! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 I didn't call musicians pathetic - just to be clear. If there are any figures for the percentage of musicians who voted to leave the EU, I'd be interested to hear them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertbass Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 My guitarist and drummer voted to leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 Maybe 'pathetic' was a bit too strong. Pointless then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knicknack Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, stevie said: Maybe 'pathetic' was a bit too strong. Pointless then. I appreciate you were being specific to the situation, not a generalisation! From the perspective of a working bassist who loves working in the EU, (and missing working at all!)... My friends/colleagues and I are just feeling devastated at the moment. We've lost people, we've lost our livelihoods, and at least some of it feels avoidable. We'll do anything to feel like we have some say! Not to mention the obsession with fishing rights.... When you're desperate you tend to do seemingly pointless things, as the other options start running out! Edited January 1, 2021 by knicknack 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Steve Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 On 31/12/2020 at 15:19, Steve Browning said: That can only be said by any impartial folk who were there. Any deviation would require both the UK and EU governments to agree. Agreed, although the "we asked and the EU said no" is the line being spun on this over the weekend One apparently well informed piece that I was reading over the weekend made the point (actually to do with fishing rights, but it applies across the deal) that there is little to be gained from complaining about the deal because the EU are unlikely to come back to it within the next five years - they work in five year cycles, and after all the stress and posturing from both sides over this deal, they are not going to start picking away at it in the meantime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 Sadly I think in terms of the deal, and whatever it actually entails, musicians and performers would have been low on the list of items to be covered, if on there at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 On 01/01/2021 at 13:56, knicknack said: I appreciate you were being specific to the situation, not a generalisation! From the perspective of a working bassist who loves working in the EU, (and missing working at all!)... My friends/colleagues and I are just feeling devastated at the moment. We've lost people, we've lost our livelihoods, and at least some of it feels avoidable. We'll do anything to feel like we have some say! Not to mention the obsession with fishing rights.... When you're desperate you tend to do seemingly pointless things, as the other options start running out! For the many people who depend on the EU for a living, this is stinky poo, there are no two ways about it. If I were in your position, @knicknack, I'd do the same. However, when the COVID situation is finally resolved and the work opportunities open up again, I'm sure you'll be back working in Europe again. It just won't be so easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Browning Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 1 hour ago, stevie said: For the many people who depend on the EU for a living, this is stinky poo, there are no two ways about it. If I were in your position, @knicknack, I'd do the same. However, when the COVID situation is finally resolved and the work opportunities open up again, I'm sure you'll be back working in Europe again. It just won't be so easy. ... or economically worthwhile. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 Although a drop in the value of sterling could well compensate for the extra administrative overhead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Browning Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 24 minutes ago, stevie said: Although a drop in the value of sterling could well compensate for the extra administrative overhead. Would not fewer £ for your € have the opposite effect? Reducing income still further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 I would imagine that anyone working in Europe gets paid in euros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knicknack Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 @stevie Often sterling i have found! Fees are confirmed leaving the risk of exchange fluctuations to the promotors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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