Are we hardwired for 4/4 time signatures?

[Greg Edwards69]

As others have said, it's more to do with exposure than being hardwired.

I feel it's the same when it comes to having perfect pitch. As string instrument players we probably all recognise that western music uses an imperfect scale that's had its mathematics mangled in order fit into an octave, which therefore isn't quite as natural as it may appear. So I find it difficult to understand when someone says they are 'born' with perfect pitch and the ability to recognise imperfect notes. I fully understand that some people have a brain that's wired to make this process easier for them, just as some people recognise logic patterns easier than other people, but they still have to be 'conditioned' to the western music scale. 

I wonder if people who claim to be born with perfect pitch find it easy recognising pitches in other musical cultures?

Edited December 18, 2020 by Greg Edwards69

[BigRedX]

And even if it does stick to the more common time signatures, rock music will often stretch them to breaking point in the name of "feel".

Used to have terrible arguments with one drummer I was in a band with about the length of a pause in a particular song, where I (the composer) wanted to stretch it out for a bit of tension, and they insisted on counting as a standard 4/4 bar. This was also the drummer who was very disparaging about musicians who play by "feel", so I was extremely tempted to work at exactly how long the pause should be and then present it as a bar of 17/16 or 33/32.

[Bassfinger]

Is it that we're hard wired, or is is that 4/4 time is so universal in music so that is what are brains are conditioned to hear? Or is 4/4 so universal in music because that what we're hard wired for? It's  a genuinely interesting conundrum.

Edited December 19, 2020 by Bassfinger
Typodjf

[Woodinblack]

20 hours ago, Greg Edwards69 said:

As others have said, it's more to do with exposure than being hardwired.

Agreed, it is what you are used to. There was a combination of mainstream music (4/4) and classical growing up, so I don't find other time signatures a problem, in fact for listening music I prefer them, but there are some genres that it doesn't work, and some people that just haven't been exposed to anything else who can't cope. 

20 hours ago, Greg Edwards69 said:

I feel it's the same when it comes to having perfect pitch. As string instrument players we probably all recognise that western music uses an imperfect scale that's had its mathematics mangled in order fit into an octave, which therefore isn't quite as natural as it may appear.

But we don't have one natural scale, we have several depending on the instrument. The scale on a piano is different from the scale on a guitar, even if only slightly.

20 hours ago, Greg Edwards69 said:

So I find it difficult to understand when someone says they are 'born' with perfect pitch and the ability to recognise imperfect notes. I fully understand that some people have a brain that's wired to make this process easier for them, just as some people recognise logic patterns easier than other people, but they still have to be 'conditioned' to the western music scale. 

If someone has perfect pitch (compared with someone who just says they have which is a much larger segment), they can literally hear the frequency, which means if it is somewhere between an F and an F#, they will know that, because they can hear the pitch. I have only met 2 people with perfect pitch, but a lot more than claim to have it.

And.. we are all born with the ability to have perfect pitch, but most of us lose it due to a lack of exersize.

[Leonard Smalls]

Our drummer and guitar player both have difficulty counting to any number other that 4...

So they just carry on in 4/4 and I just play the appropriate number of bars so that it all comes right in the end! Luckily our singer understands feel a lot better, otherwise my twiddley bits in 11/8 or 5/4 would be wasted (they probably are anyway!).

[Greg Edwards69]

7 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

But we don't have one natural scale, we have several depending on the instrument. The scale on a piano is different from the scale on a guitar, even if only slightly.

That’s kind of what I was trying to get at. I think the nature of stringed instruments makes the player more aware of the limitations of the western music system more than fixed pitch instruments such as woodwind and piano.

[Nail Soup]

Not seen any research, but my gut feel is 'no' , given the amount of other systems in various cultures around the world and over time.

I guess if any number of beats had a biological basis it would be two.... e.g the alternating footsteps of two feet. And four is two times two...........

[Stub Mandrel]

I normally find that as long as a time signature stays constant, I'm OK.

I find syncopated stuff like Monkey Wrench or Papa was a Rolling Stone,  harder.

This has got me confused, it;''s a slow as a bassline can get, one note per bar, can anyone help?

 

[Stub Mandrel]

8 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

If someone has perfect pitch (compared with someone who just says they have which is a much larger segment), they can literally hear the frequency, which means if it is somewhere between an F and an F#, they will know that, because they can hear the pitch. I have only met 2 people with perfect pitch, but a lot more than claim to have it.

And.. we are all born with the ability to have perfect pitch, but most of us lose it due to a lack of exersize.

I watched Jon Pertwee hypnotising Aggedoir today by singing a Venusian Lullaby* a capella. As far as I could tell by playing along he was singing in C minor, despite it being pretty 'rough' sounding.

I wonder if he'd been given a pitch cue because it would be pretty odd to hit that key at random.

 

*OK, nonsense words to the tune of God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen.

[Woodinblack]

14 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

I wonder if he'd been given a pitch cue because it would be pretty odd to hit that key at random.

Presumably as it was on telly it had been rehearsed before recording with a piano or something. Singing something at the same pitch as something you heard before isn't perfect pitch

[casapete]

These days with IEM’s it’s easy to receive a pitch note during the count in or whatever.

A singer I worked with many years ago was the most unmusical person I’ve ever known - he couldn’t keep time/ count bars etc and often sang a tad sharp too. One day for a laugh the band started a song in a slightly different key though and he knew straight away - probably learned it by rote so much that his starting note was ingrained in his head.

Someone I worked for many years could sing any note he was asked for - I did test him out and he was astonishingly accurate too. Am guessing he has  perfect pitch?

[Stub Mandrel]

23 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

Presumably as it was on telly it had been rehearsed before recording with a piano or something. Singing something at the same pitch as something you heard before isn't perfect pitch

I find it hard to believe they would bother rehearsing this at a piano...