Stepping up from a Stagg EUB - recommendations please!

[Al Krow]

Been really enjoying improving my EUB playing on my Stagg 3/4 EUB during past few months.

It's a great value piece of kit and exactly the right thing for me as a beginner.

If I continue to work on improving my playing and start gigging with this with my 50s / 60s band next year, I'm kinda thinking that it might be nice to upgrade from this at some point in 2021, but sticking with a "free standing" EUB rather than the "stationary" EUB of the NS Design type.

Be really interested to get your thoughts on and feedback on other EUBs you've had and in what way they would be a step up from the Stagg.

Edited January 22, 2022 by Al Krow

[Hellzero]

There's this accessory for the NS Design EUB's : https://thinkns.com/accessory/bass-end-pin-stand/

[Hellzero]

The Eminence EUB is certainly the best choice, but like the NS Design CR series, it's not cheap, but they appear second hand from time to time and often around £1000~1500.

[Staggering on]

I went from a Stagg to a Yamaha SLB 200 that I found in perfect condition for about 1/3 of the price of a new one and it has served me well for about 4 years of gigs and rehearsals with two bands. I have been using my DB for most gigs since I got it about two years ago but I usually rehearse with the Yamaha since it is easier to haul around and I still use it on gigs with limited stage space and I can usually dial in a good sound using its onboard EQ going straight into the PA. I love playing it but the DB looks better at gigs for the bands I'm in and is fun to play.

I think a new  Yamaha is overpriced by quite a bit but the latest model (300) might be worth it since it has fancy new electronics. If I were shopping for a new EUB I would be checking out the Italian MK basses, they get very good reviews and are reasonably priced and have several models to chose from. I have tried an Eminence and it was lovely to play and as mentioned above it is expensive but you might find a good used one. 

Both the Yamaha and MK have "wings" which make playing them more like playing DB, much easier to hold and play than the Stagg and some other EUB's.

Good luck with the search.

[Doddy]

It really depends on your budget. I've found that most decent EUB's are in the £2k+ range, and then you'll be looking at makes like Yamaha, Eminence, BSX, Clevinger etc, and they are all really good.

I've been playing a Clifton EUB for about 16 years now, and it's a beautiful instrument.  It feels very close to my double bass, and sounds pretty close too. I've done recordings where you could easily mistake it for an actual acoustic. It even sounds great with the bow. I don't know how many instruments Mo Clifton is making right now because I haven't spoken to him for a while, but if you get the chance to try one of his basses, do it. He's based in London too.

[Burns-bass]

I’ve had many of them and the two stand out basses for mimicking what a DB feels like are the MK bass and the SLB. 

The MK Jazz with a suspended soundboard really resonates like a DB and sounds great but the Eminence sounds very good too. Personally, I found the Eminence moved too much and the waist bar wasn’t great, but I was a more sizeable chap then and I’m sure this had something to do with it!

If I’d not come from a DB to EUB then I’d say the Eminence is probably the better bet. It’s portable and really picks down small if you buy the golf-buggy case and everything. 

If you want an EUB that’s as close to a DB, then buy an MK new or SLB second hand. If you want a stick EUB that sounds amazing and is great for gigs, then go with an Eminence.

In all situations, budget for a decent pre-amp, a new set of strings and a set up too.

[Al Krow]

Some really helpful tips above - thanks guys!

2 hours ago, Burns-bass said:

If I’d not come from a DB to EUB then I’d say the Eminence is probably the better bet. It’s portable and really packs down small if you buy the golf-buggy case and everything. If you want an EUB that’s as close to a DB, then buy an MK new or SLB second hand. If you want a stick EUB that sounds amazing and is great for gigs, then go with an Eminence. In all situations, budget for a decent pre-amp, a new set of strings and a set up too.

That's a really neat summary!

In terms of a decent pre-amp - got my eye on the recently released EBS Stanley Clarke (sister thread running concurrently, if you've not seen already) - seems to be getting rave reactions from fellow BC'ers, and it does look superb.

As @Doddy mentions the recommended EUBs are in the £2k+ range, so it seems like that I'd need to go from the £400 mark for my Stagg EUB to a 'very decent' quality EUB. I guess I may end up with one of the ones mentioned eventually - and the portability of the Eminence is very attractive if that packs down into a golf buggy case!

Just wondering if there is an intermediate rung on the ladder at around the £1k mark that would still be significant improvement in quality / sound over the Stagg?

[Doddy]

11 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Just wondering if there is an intermediate rung on the ladder at around the £1k mark that would still be significant improvement in quality / sound over the Stagg?

I don't think there are many around that price range. There are obviously basses like the NS Wav or the Ibanez Upswing, but generally there seems to be a big price gap in the EUB market. You're probably best looking at the secondhand market. You can sometimes find a quality used bass around £1000-£1,500 range.

[Hellzero]

I've tried a few in the low price segment.

Forget the dire Ergo EUB, I had the good idea to buy one (which was the maker personal one, for the story) and took it to a gig, worst idea ever as I had to fight the EUB to get a decent sound and fight against the sound changing between songs because of a crap design, was an epic night...

You can find the Zeta EUB around £1000 second hand, but they sound more as an in between fretless and double bass.

I had also an old Warwick Triumph which was quite good, but totally unreliable.

Then I bought my first second hand NS Design for peanuts  : a CR5M which was a revelation, but still too much on the fretless side with the proprietary Ns Design/D'addario strings. I changed them for some real double bass strings and then it was it, but you have to put 80% of the piezo in the mix. Made a lot of gigs with it, always a pleasure and thanks to the tripod design, I could play sitting.

I also had another NS Design CR4M again bought for less than £1000 (second hand of course) which was as good as the CR5M when I put some Thomastik Spirocore on it.

I had an Eminence lent for a few weeks and it was excellent, but you have to tweak a good preamp a bit to get a close to double bass tone.

And then I have my custom made Leduc U-Contrebasse 6 strings with the patented free floating top. It's a one off and it took seven (yes 7) years to finish it... Now it's the only one I use ... at home for now until we can start again playing and rehearsing.

As mentioned, you'll have to buy a very good dedicated preamp or a combo like the AER BassCube which works really well for double bass, EUB and electric bass.

[TheRev]

There's not a lot of EUBs available in the gap between the Stagg/Harley Benton price range and the £1500 + world of the Yamaha SLB, Eminence and MK basses.

The Aria SWB Lite was about £800 new but I don't think they make them any more. There's one on Reverb for £950, which is silly money . My first EUB was an Aria and while it was pretty good  I felt the need to move up a notch after 18 months, so even if you could find one for a decent price, I reckon you'd outgrow it pretty quickly.

The Eminence (my second and current EUB) is great - light years away from the Stagg in feel and sound,  as is the Yamaha SLB 200. Neither are cheap new, though second hand ones can be had for the £1200 mark.

Are you married to the EUB?  If you're looking at spending £1200, you could get a very acceptable second hand laminate double bass and pickup, which will sound and play much more like a double bass than any EUB.

[Al Krow]

14 hours ago, TheRev said:

Are you married to the EUB? 

Love that question! 

I'd say I am married to 5 string electric basses having had an amicable divorce from 4 strings, apart from my EUB and a lone 8 string which is kinda still a 4 string (but with aspirations to be something higher, right?)

So I guess it's more of a sultry affair with the EUB and the fact that they are slimline does make them much more attractive 😁

Put more seriously: portability is a key driver for me - I'd never be able to lug around a double bass alongside the PA and my own bass gear. The Eminence being able to pack down into a golf buggy case immediately gets my attention!

[TPJ]

I found having that having a portable eub (BSX Allegro 5), it gets transported fully assembled in a gig bag. Taking it apart just for space was a pain...time consuming and dealing with getting it back in tune in a short amount of time etc.... I only took it apart when flying, maybe twice.

You may want to try some different eubs if you can. I know times are difficult right now but maybe ask the community if anyone near you has anything different to what you have, given the potential cost you're about to incur  :-)

 

 

[TheRev]

3 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Put more seriously: portability is a key driver for me - I'd never be able to lug around a double bass alongside the PA and my own bass gear. The Eminence being able to pack down into a golf buggy case immediately gets my attention!

That's a good enough reason to shack up with an EUB!

The Eminence and Yamahas are the most DB-ish of the common EUBs available.  I've never played a MK bass, but they look very similar to the Yamaha design.  The MK jazz model is rather pretty looking..... I'd marry that one if I could.

I think you'd be very happy with any of those three - if you have the cash I reckon you could buy any of them unseen and not regret it.  I bought my Eminence without ever having seen one in the flesh, never mind touching one and haven'y looked back.

 

 

[knirirr]

On 12/12/2020 at 09:14, Al Krow said:

Be really interested to get your thoughts on and feedback on other EUBs you've had and in what way they would be a step up from the Stagg.

I bought a Warwick Triumph second hand in March; I note also that there was one of a similar age (< 10 years old) for sale here recently.
Overall I've been very pleased with it, but it required a bit of fiddling, including a setup from a DB luthier, and decent tuners fitting. This latter modification allows the use of proper DB strings, and the Evah Pirazzi gold/slap I have on it give a good tone. A copper pipe over the endpin has got it up to a reasonable height for me (I am 6'3").
N.B. there are no dots on side of the neck.

 

 

[Al Krow]

What is it with manufacturers not putting dots on the side? It's an absolute must for some of us beginner EUB bassists who normally play standard electric bass! 

I guess there is a relatively easy DIY hack that folk use to sort this?

[Hellzero]

Mark a line with a pencil on the side of the fingerboard where the dots should be. Use a chromatic tuner to find the right location. It's a beginner trick for double bass. 😉

[Al Krow]

14 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

Mark a line with a pencil on the side of the fingerboard where the dots should be. Use a chromatic tuner to find the right location. It's a beginner trick for double bass. 😉

My Tippex stick is ready and armed 😁

[Burns-bass]

The problem with marking where the notes are is that you train yourself to look at the fingerboard. You’ll contort yourself into an odd shape to do so which is technically incorrect. Probably doesn’t matter much if you’re enjoying playing at home, but if you then need to read music, sing or just fancy looking at the audience it can knock your intonation off.

I’d recommend learning to play in tune with a drone. You’ll benefit from it in the long run.

[Al Krow]

Just to prove what a newbie I still am, I now need to go check what a "drone" is. I'm guessing it's not the same thing as used by the US armed forces...😁

Edited December 20, 2020 by Al Krow

[Dad3353]

25 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Just to prove what a newbie I still am, I now need to go check what a "drone" is. I'm guessing it's not the same thing as used by the US armed forces...😁

A constant note, such as a foot pressing a bass pedal on a church organ, or the wind harps sounding behind an Indian raga. When practising fretless, sounding an open string, or a harmonic, helps to keep the ear attuned to the intonation. When playing 'live', this is used, too; no need to have a church organ pedal board on stage with you, really. 

[Hellzero]

Opened strings are the key to intonation on fretless instruments.

[Staggering on]

9 hours ago, Al Krow said:

What is it with manufacturers not putting dots on the side? It's an absolute must for some of us beginner EUB bassists who normally play standard electric bass! 

I guess there is a relatively easy DIY hack that folk use to sort this?

I use liquid Whiteout on my EUB, it comes in a pen format and you can make whatever size marks you want and it is easy to remove and doesn't damage your bass. 

Recently I ordered some stick on dots(non permanent) from Gollihur Music and got both the white colour and the light maple. I put the maple ones on my blonde DB and while I can see them they are not very obvious to anyone else. 

I have been playing EUB and DB for just over 5 years now and while I'm not particularly good I have played a lot of gigs with several bands using both instruments and do some vocals too and I use the dots as a quick reference once in a while as I'm playing but don't use them all the time. Some professional DB players have dots in thumb position for reference and I've never heard anyone criticize that.

Re the suggestion that you shouldn't use dots or marks because you will come to rely on them I don't agree with that. I would argue that every guitar and EB I have seen, including fretless EB, have dots and other markers on them and I've never heard the argument that they are a learning crutch and are a bad thing when you are learning to play. If they are OK on those instruments why not on EUB and DB where people like me can sneak a peek just to check exactly where I am on the fingerboard, especially important when playing in a loud band.  I haven't seen many guitar or EB players using the dots except as a quick reference unless they are beginners. Why make things harder for yourself, I use my ears and muscle memory for intonation but sometimes in the heat of the battle it's nice to have a visual reference. I am a bass player who likes to move a lot as I play and sometimes I need a look to make sure where I am on the fingerboard unlike many players who don't move much or use a stool while playing and the instrument stays in the same place relative to their body. Obviously I don't play in an orchestra, at least not yet, and I will have to change a few things if that ever happens. 

 

...running for cover....😊 

Edited December 21, 2020 by Staggering on

[Burns-bass]

6 hours ago, Staggering on said:

Re the suggestion that you shouldn't use dots or marks because you will come to rely on them I don't agree with that. I would argue that every guitar and EB I have seen, including fretless EB, have dots and other markers on them and I've never heard the argument that they are a learning crutch and are a bad thing when you are learning to play. If they are OK on those instruments why not on EUB and DB where people like me can sneak a peek just to check exactly where I am on the fingerboard, especially important when playing in a loud band.  I haven't seen many guitar or EB players using the dots except as a quick reference unless they are beginners. Why make things harder for yourself, I use my ears and muscle memory for intonation but sometimes in the heat of the battle it's nice to have a visual reference. I am a bass player who likes to move a lot as I play and sometimes I need a look to make sure where I am on the fingerboard unlike many players who don't move much or use a stool while playing and the instrument stays in the same place relative to their body. Obviously I don't play in an orchestra, at least not yet, and I will have to change a few things if that ever happens. 

 

...running for cover....😊 

I’m not classically trained and I don’t have strong feelings on this. As you say, whatever gets you out playing and enjoying DB is what matters!

 

[Al Krow]

Some really useful practical perspectives from you both @Burns-bassand @Staggering on - for which many thanks!

There are a couple of EUBs in the FS right now, both significantly above my £1k budget, but I must admit I'm more than a little tempted by one of them, despite it not having any side dots...😊

 

 

 

[Burns-bass]

1 minute ago, Al Krow said:

Some really useful practical perspectives from you both @Burns-bassand @Staggering on - for which many thanks!

There are a couple of EUBs in the FS right now, both significantly above my £1k budget, but I must admit I'm more than a little tempted by one of them, despite it not having any side dots...😊

 

 

 

The world of DB is expensive, better get used to it!