Finished! It's a bass, Jim...

[Andyjr1515]

The good news is that the timber is coming!  Clearly things are busy over there at David Dyke's - it arrives Monday

In the meantime, the constructional veneer arrived for the back/top demarcation - this is 1.5mm maple rather than the standard 0.6mm - and is now being glued to the underside of the top:

The main next job that holds everything else up is getting the neck blank laminated once the wood is here

 

Edited December 4, 2020 by Andyjr1515

[Andyjr1515]

That'll do (ignore the oak table...) 

[SpondonBassed]

1 hour ago, Andyjr1515 said:

ignore the oak table...

...and the shelving... and the flooring.  You'd be hard put to find more timber per cubic metre in a flippin' tree house!

It's all right.  We're used to a multitude of splendid domestic grains and textures accompanying your posts by now.  It's one of the "perks" of the Build Diaries.

[Andyjr1515]

So why do I make sure I have the timber and some of the hardware before I make a proper start?

Well, for a through-neck the geometry has to be right otherwise it is major grief.  Whereas on a bolt-on you can alter the neck pocket and neck angle, with a through neck that angle has to be right.

And - as many of you know - when it comes to neck angles, a few mm here or there can make a big difference.

And so I need to have hold of the actual bridge and see how far forward and back the saddles will go, and how much actual usable adjustment there is in terms of height.  I need the fretboard blank because I need to know what my finished fretboard depth is going to be so that I can draw the string line against the bridge movement limits and that lets me work out the neck angle.  And then with the actual neck blanks available on hand, I can work out the most economical way of achieving that angle (eg, can I get two splices from one blank or not)

So today - with the bridge here and now the timber blanks in hand, I've got out the long rulers and set-squares to draw up the geometry.

So first - on the bridge, where do the saddles sit in relation to the base and how much intonation movement is there?   Then I can I work out where the bridge - and therefore the bass body - needs to be in relation to the nut.

On intonation range, the Nova bridge score is off the scale.

First, by fitting a dummy string, I could work out the maximum and minimum practical intonation movement achievable without string interfering with the bridge components.  That worked out, I could now set the Bottom E right back and the Top G right forward.  That gives me a whopping 9mm usable intonation movement! :

But that's not all.  Because there are four positions that each saddle unit can be fixed to :

That gives an additional 38mm movement from the furthest forward to the furthest back - a total of 47mm!!!   We're into multi-scale territory without even having to fit the individual bases (which Nova can supply in any case  )

So top marks on that one.  And it takes ALL the worry out of fitting the bridge in the wrong place (not that I would EVER do that   )

The saddle height range, however, is more limited.  I could only get 5.5mm reliable height adjustment of the saddle (reliable meaning where I could still fit the locking grub-screw).  However, the base is generously thick (bodes well for the tone! ) at 6.5mm and so if, like me, you intend to sink the base into the bass top, you can practically sink it up to a further 6mm without interfering with anything, giving a total 'design safety factor' of around 11mm in the event of the neck angle not ending up quite to plan.

So two big ticks for Nova.

Then I hit what I thought was a snag.

I always keep sets of 'setup' strings so that I don't k****er new strings with all of the build set up and stringing and restringing stuff.  So I just pulled a random test string from my bits drawer -  and then hit what I thought was a snag.  The ball end was too big to allow the adjuster to slide into the saddle-holder:

 That's odd, I thought.  I checked that it was fully seating and it was.  While not overly difficult to fix - either by deepening the ball end socket on the unit, or filing the ball end down - it seemed unusual that this wouldn't have been picked up in such a well engineered item.

So I opened a pack of new D'Addario strings and:

Perfect. 

So I then tried a Newtone big fat B string:

Perfect again.  And all the other makes I had in the drawer.  I've no idea what make the first one was that I tried, but my conclusion is that this isn't an issue with the Nova bridge - it is more an issue with that particular string manufacturer's balls...

Tomorrow, I will finish calculating the angles and start getting a few neck splices cut. 

Oh - and yes - we're going for a 9-piecer:

 

Thanks for looking

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Andre_Passini]

That's great Andy, thank for your tests and feedback, I tested here with Daddario's and worked fine, but I have never tested with a lot of different string brands and your test helps me a lot.

Andre.

[TheGreek]

1 hour ago, Andyjr1515 said:

it is more an issue with that particular string manufacturer's balls...

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry for being so juvenile....

[Andyjr1515]

13 minutes ago, Andre_Passini said:

That's great Andy, thank for your tests and feedback, I tested here with Daddario's and worked fine, but I have never tested with a lot of different string brands and your test helps me a lot.

Andre.

No problem.

  I have many makes of string in my bits drawer and that was the only one that didn't fit.  I don't recall any other strings I've used or fitted with that larger ball.  It is certainly not one of the popular makes as far as I am aware.

[Andyjr1515]

Didn't quite get to actual cutting of the neck laminates, but I have done all of the calcs to be able to do that first thing in the morning  

With all of the info I verified yesterday with bridge heights, etc, I was able to draw full scale the whole of the neck and bridge geometry including: fretboard depth; fret height; nut rise with the string tension and a couple of 'from (bitter) experience' tweaks to come up with the :

- neck angle (2.5 degrees)

which gives me the

- neck blank minimum depth and shape

I double checked this against the Sims routing depth requirement for the SuperQuads and that means that I can make the template to cut the neck blanks in the morning and start the process of laminating the 9 sections together.

I doesn't look much but spending the time to do this drawing saves days of remedial work further down the line

  

 

Edited December 6, 2020 by Andyjr1515

[MoonBassAlpha]

On 05/12/2020 at 22:33, Andyjr1515 said:

No problem.

  I have many makes of string in my bits drawer and that was the only one that didn't fit.  I don't recall any other strings I've used or fitted with that larger ball.  It is certainly not one of the popular makes as far as I am aware.

Red silks on Rotosound last time I used them (years ago)

[Andyjr1515]

30 minutes ago, MoonBassAlpha said:

Red silks on Rotosound last time I used them (years ago)

Ah...maybe.  Like you, I generally don't use them but maybe it came off a re-string.  I'll check so that I can update Andre if they are.  Thanks

[Andyjr1515]

35 minutes ago, MoonBassAlpha said:

Red silks on Rotosound last time I used them (years ago)

No - not Rotosound.  You are quite right that some do have that red binding, but all the ball ends I can see are the 'standard' smaller brass ones, which would fit fine.

I've a feeling it is a real obscure make.  I did get a set years ago of super-super light gauge from a string maker I'd never heard of and have never seen since.  I'll check the gauges in the morning.

[Maude]

I've found lots of 'budget' strings tend to have red silks. Those ten pounds a pack Olympia flats do, and the two different brands of super el cheapo rounds I used to buy from a local shop for a fiver did to. 

Not much help but there you go 😁. 

 

Enjoying this build BTW. I don't know how but I only just discovered it over the weekend. 🙂👍

[TheGreek]

IIRC Fender roundwounds also have red silks...probably doesn't help any though...

[Andyjr1515]

OK - before I get those strings out with my calipers to see if they are, indeed, the real odd-balls (accidental pun, honest) then let's start cutting and gluing wood

A final check of the side view, neck angle and thicknesses:

Then I was able to cut out the card template for the neck blanks and lay them out on the first inner neck splice:

I had planed and checked the straightness of the edges of all of the splices first because, as you can see, the top edge will be my fretboard datum - so as long as I glue all of the splices upside down on a flat board, that will remain flat and square for the gluing, eventually, of the fretboard.

You can also see above the extra width of the blank needed on a neck through due to the angle of the body.

But I am still - just - able to get the second one out of the same blank:

And after a morning on the bandsaw, I have 5 of the 9 (and there's a puzzle there for the more observant of you)!

And then, using the outer mahogany blanks as clamping cauls, I glue the first three together:

 

 

[TheGreek]

All together now...

"You can never have enough clamps...."

[SpondonBassed]

46 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said:

I have 5 of the 9 (and there's a puzzle there for the more observant of you)!

Is it "What's better than five of nine by a good pair"?

Edited December 7, 2020 by SpondonBassed

[Andyjr1515]

Ah - solved the mystery maker @Andre_Passini:

They are Bass Centre Elites, Stadium Series, Extra Light (30 to 90 gauge).

I've never bought Bass Centre strings before or since so can't be sure whether these are their standard ball-ends.  Anyone here on the forum know?

 

[Jus Lukin]

Oh man, this gets more exciting- and more scary- every step of the way!

[Jus Lukin]

Oh, and I have some Elites flats tucked away somewhere. I'll get the calipers on them at some point!

[Andre_Passini]

2 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

They are Bass Centre Elites, Stadium Series, Extra Light (30 to 90 gauge).

I've never bought Bass Centre strings before or since so can't be sure whether these are their standard ball-ends.  Anyone here on the forum know?

Got it Andy, by the way, can you measure this ball end, so I can modify my part here?

[Andyjr1515]

2 hours ago, Andre_Passini said:

Got it Andy, by the way, can you measure this ball end, so I can modify my part here?

Hi Andre

It's interesting because the Bass Centre Elites (which have the problem) are actually shorter than the D'Addario (which don't have a problem).  But the Bass Centre Elites have a larger circumference* diameter and also more variable.

I assume that - even though the larger circumference* diameterof the Elites fit into the holder socket. they probably hit the slight dish at the bottom of the socket just that little bit sooner. 

 

Bass Centre Elites (Stadium Series).  These are the ones that don't fit :

Depth  =                     4.69mm - 4.72mm

Circumference* Diameter=        6.35mm - 6.37mm

 

D'Addario EXL170-5TP  These fit OK

Depth =                   4.81mm - 4.83mm

Circumference* Diameter =   6.03mm - 6.04mm

 

**Apols for the mixup of diameter and circumference.  Clearly brain not in gear.  Now back to that 30cm scale bass 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Andyjr1515

[MoonBassAlpha]

Are Elites still available even? I used to buy them all the time, but haven't for about 20 years.

[Andre_Passini]

That's weird, but thanks anyway, now I can enlarge the hole

[Andyjr1515]

4 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

And after a morning on the bandsaw, I have 5 of the 9 (and there's a puzzle there for the more observant of you)!

The solution to the puzzle is that there are more maple slices in the photo than in the diagram I put up 

It's an iterative process is a custom build.  The splices from DD were a mm above spec which, normally, isn't a problem.  But when you have a lot of splices, it adds up a lot!  And the central core doesn't want to be exposed at the 40mm nut-end of the neck.

So I've pushed my band saw to the limits and taken slices off both the maple and the mahogany, then abandoned the walnut, to come up with this (the 3 core splices are glued in this pic but everything else is loose):

Aesthetically it works and the central core remains  within the mahogany outers (which will be narrowed down in any case) all the way down to the nut.

So another two splices are now being glued - I do them a pair at a time because trying to clamp 8 floating sections in one go is the road to unhappiness

This is showing the other way up - maintaining this square and flat surface is helpful because 2/3rds of that length is going to be the base for the fretboard.

So two more gluing sessions after this one, and we should have a blank ready to thickness to final width

 

 

[Andyjr1515]

19 minutes ago, MoonBassAlpha said:

Are Elites still available even? I used to buy them all the time, but haven't for about 20 years.

Well - they seem to still have an active website with a huge range - but I have to say they are not a string I come across very often...