Music for pleasure vs for music viz learning

[Barking Spiders]

This might be one and the same for many BCers but for me there's a big gap between the two. I mean for pleasure it's generally a mix of late 70s - 80s John Peel type stuff, old school funk & hip hop, all sorts of electronica. But there's not a whole heap here to help me become better at playing. In between bouts of work this morning I've been checking out Tosin Abasi and Guthrie Govan viz 6 string niftyness. I often watch Vic Wootten, Richard Bona & Stanley Clarke YT vids and am a big fan of Allan Holdworth's playing. But, I don't have any albums these fellas have played on, never will. So, does anyone else's brain go into one mode re listening for pleasure and switches to another viz learning?

[uk_lefty]

Yes, similar here. But it's the objective of the learning for me. I want to be a better player by learning from the more technical stuff to make my playing presence in the simpler stuff more effective. 

[Dad3353]

To me, that seems quite obvious. For my sins, I spent much of my career in IT. This involved much perusal of technical tomes on subjects such as Operating Systems, Production Management, Statistics, Programming In Cobol and more. I can't honestly say that these would have been my choice for bed-time relaxation and getting off to sleep. So yes, my 'learning' stuff (on drums, but, whatever...) has been Joe Morello method books, Max Abrams Drum Rudiments and many more of similar ilk. Slight difference; I listen to Joe Morello for pleasure, too. It's not the same 'listening', though when I'm 'working' on stuff. To me, that seems quite obvious.

Edited November 11, 2020 by Dad3353

[BigRedX]

I only really listen to music for pleasure. If that leads to an idea for a song that in turn leads to me having to push myself technically in order to be able to play this new song, then so be it.

One of the many reasons I left the covers band I used to be in, was that dissecting a song in order to learn how to play it sucked all of the enjoyment out of listening to that song. There are now several pieces of music I used to like a lot, that I never want to hear again because of this process.

[christhammer666]

yes definitely.

playing wise I play downtuned groove metal but listening wise its pretty much  Marcus miller, vic wooten etc

[TheLowDown]

I listen to everything for the sake of learning different genres for the bass, but for pleasure most of those genres don't tend to get listened to.

[Bassfinger]

It is much the same for me.  There is stuff I make myself play to expand my technique and build my skills, and stuff I play for the sheer pleasure of it, and they are mutually exclusive.

[Lozz196]

I’ve found recently that learning material for my new band that I normally wouldn’t have bothered with is actually giving me great pleasure/enjoyment. For a start it’s harder, so my playing is improving, but it’s also helping me to appreciate songs that I previously thought were “alright” whereas I now have a greater respect for them and those that wrote and performed them.

[stewblack]

19 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

I’ve found recently that learning material for my new band that I normally wouldn’t have bothered with is actually giving me great pleasure/enjoyment. For a start it’s harder, so my playing is improving, but it’s also helping me to appreciate songs that I previously thought were “alright” whereas I now have a greater respect for them and those that wrote and performed them.

That's brilliantly put, I found exactly the same thing first function band I played with. Turned my nose up when I first saw the set list, but changed my mind rapidly once I started learning 

[stewblack]

9 hours ago, BigRedX said:

sucked all of the enjoyment out of listening to that song

That's another great observation. It's why I don't like learning my most favourite songs. 

Once you take the lid off and see how it works, the magic leaves the box. 

[chris_b]

1 hour ago, stewblack said:

That's another great observation. It's why I don't like learning my most favourite songs. 

Once you take the lid off and see how it works, the magic leaves the box. 

I always analyse and play my favourite songs. You've got to know what makes your favourite music tick, but I'll never suggest them to the band because they'll never do them justice.

In this house there is always music in the background. I don't listen to much music these days, unless I'm working on a set. When I'm on my own I prefer R4.

[stewblack]

10 hours ago, chris_b said:

I always analyse and play my favourite songs. You've got to know what makes your favourite music tick, but I'll never suggest them to the band because they'll never do them justice.

In this house there is always music in the background. I don't listen to much music these days, unless I'm working on a set. When I'm on my own I prefer R4.

Went through years as a 4ophile. Barely listened to music. 

But after the ludicrous way they killed Nigel I fell out of love. 

[Happy Jack]

9 minutes ago, stewblack said:

But after the ludicrous way they killed Nigel I fell out of love. 

And he had that future with British Steel, too ...

 

[mikel]

I can only learn from stuff I like and enjoy listening too. As someone semi famous once said......"I couldn't wait to get away from school and having to learn what other people thought I should know, and read books about what I  wanted to know." I'm paraphrasing but you get the gist.

[chris_b]

16 minutes ago, mikel said:

I can only learn from stuff I like and enjoy listening too.

I'd always suggest listening to everything. I can learn from  stuff I don't like. It might be a challenge but if it improves your playing then it's a worthwhile exercise.

In lockdown #1 I reacquainted myself with the sets I'd played in the previous 3 years,  then I charted about 30 Stevie Wonder songs. They're good, I know them but have rarely played any. It was a great learning experience.

Now we're in lockdown #2 I'm looking at Bobby Bland (the California Album era), going through the Daryl's House videos again and looking at Kylie Minogue's Glasto set. There are songs here that I know and like, some which are technically more demanding and some where I don't know the style at all.

Learn from everything.

[4000]

23 hours ago, BigRedX said:

I only really listen to music for pleasure. If that leads to an idea for a song that in turn leads to me having to push myself technically in order to be able to play this new song, then so be it.

 

This. Most of my learning the past several years has been via creating and most of the time I’m learning stuff that starts out in my head.

Haven’t played covers in years. Decades even. 

[MacDaddy]

they don't have to be mutually exclusive. Doing 4 part harmony exercises can be fun and educational.

[mikel]

4 hours ago, chris_b said:

I'd always suggest listening to everything. I can learn from  stuff I don't like. It might be a challenge but if it improves your playing then it's a worthwhile exercise.

In lockdown #1 I reacquainted myself with the sets I'd played in the previous 3 years,  then I charted about 30 Stevie Wonder songs. They're good, I know them but have rarely played any. It was a great learning experience.

Now we're in lockdown #2 I'm looking at Bobby Bland (the California Album era), going through the Daryl's House videos again and looking at Kylie Minogue's Glasto set. There are songs here that I know and like, some which are technically more demanding and some where I don't know the style at all.

Learn from everything.

Fine, but I am not interested in learning from things I dont like. Life is too, too short to take time up with that.

[dmccombe7]

Normally the 2 are separate for me.

Most bands i play in i don't usually listen to the songs except to learn them. Once i start learning the songs i tend to get more interested in the bands other work. There are some bands i just like to get a feel for how the bassist thinks and plays to help me replicate his style live. 

In a nutshell the band i'm in at any one time will influence what i listen to for a bit.

On the other hand my own personal choice is so varied with a lean towards Prog. 

Dave

[Barking Spiders]

1 hour ago, mikel said:

Fine, but I am not interested in learning from things I dont like. Life is too, too short to take time up with that.

Fair point.  I just like to pick up nifty tips viz certain techniques you only generally hear in classical, fusion, jazz or prog metal. For pleasure though I don't enjoy listening to any of these. 

[BadHands]

Absolutely. I like to pick up technical advice from the shredders because they have the greatest understanding of facilitating that technique, so WHATEVER comes to my mind, I can play it.

I'm more likely to listen to something less rock-based, though. 

What's fascinating to me is learning how the setup/gear of those shredders contributes to their sound, and how an ultra-low action etc doesn't really work for slap, so ultimately I get the best of both in finding the correct middle ground for me. 

I'll add a third option as well as a friend of mine admitted he doesn't know any new music since we left school in '06; I keep an ear out for Radio1 now so I can hear how the landscape of pop music shifts. 

[grandad]

[MacDaddy]

On 13/11/2020 at 15:50, csmallett said:

Absolutely. I like to pick up technical advice from the shredders because they have the greatest understanding of facilitating that technique, so WHATEVER comes to my mind, I can play it.

I'm more likely to listen to something less rock-based, though. 

What's fascinating to me is learning how the setup/gear of those shredders contributes to their sound, and how an ultra-low action etc doesn't really work for slap, so ultimately I get the best of both in finding the correct middle ground for me. 

I'll add a third option as well as a friend of mine admitted he doesn't know any new music since we left school in '06; I keep an ear out for Radio1 now so I can hear how the landscape of pop music shifts. 

apart from some songs in the set list of my old band, I don't really know any new music since about 1992.

[Dad3353]

There's new music..? 

[stewblack]

During the lockdown I've battled  not just with the loneliness of isolation, but have had to come to terms with a debilitating condition which affects my ability to learn and to play. It's a physical and cognitive experience both frustrating and painful. 

Nonetheless, my bass has been a constant companion and a blessing. I set out to learn to transcribe and have ended up learning to read and write music. 

Slow going often taking backwards steps, but more rewarding than I could ever have imagined. The joy of working with other musicians is unique in my experience and learning is not a substitute for that. Rather it is a whole other world of discovery. I love it. 

What to do when I can't get out of bed? Simple, buy and sell effects pedals here and on Facebook. Another fascinating learning experience, both fun, splendidly obsessive and ultimately even useful. 

So no difference in learning, or just cutting loose and jamming some  fun tunes for me. It's all good.