Singing technique and stuff about how you sing

[police squad]

As you know (well some of you), I'm Sting in a Police tribute band

But I'm also in an 80s duo. Very varied set list, from Kraftwerk to Bon Jovi. We use modified backing tracks, live keys and live guitar

During this current lockdown, I've decided to learn to sing some different stuff, starting with Bucks Fizz (don't laugh, I'm serious)

I love the song 'now those days are gone'

 

This was the only single to feature Mike Nolan as lead singer.

I can hit all the notes but it's the softness in his voice I am struggling with.

I am singing, stood up, mic in Mic stand, standing tall. It's too rocky this way.

Then, after about 2 hours, removed the mic and slouched a bit. Slightly bent over and there it was. A softer timbre in my voice.

Has anyone got any other tips here. I've been singing since I started playing bass 39 years ago but I've never thought about the singing techniques, I've just sung

I've lost a stone and a half in the past six months and my voice has really improved, more power and I've recovered just over a semi-tone in my range.

What does the singing collective have to help

[Cuzzie]

Good on you!

I struggle to call myself a singist, but I seem to be given the job when the cards are dished around. I used to sing when young in a choir, but didn’t train my voice through it breaking.

You probably know this but it’s the diaphragm sing that is the key, not choking it up all in the throat, that will allow the breath control for not just power, but also gentle vocals.

Make sure you’re mic suits your vocals and how you attack it, on axis, off axis so from Sub Cardioid through to Hyper Cardioid as well as the type of vocals you do, do you want it flat or an increased response in a certain range.

In line with this, to help soften your voice, learn your distance from the mic - so you could be singing at the same volume, but moving further away will naturally soften it, or if belting one out, move away to keep the volume level similar.

I often play down half a step or even a whole step as it can increase your range and ability.

Pick songs that suit you, not just to play, but to sing, it’s fun, keep it that way!

I mess between breathy or nasal or deep from the guts type stuff to see how it goes, and always throw a little falsetto and vibrato in for fun!

Probably not much help!

[police squad]

thanks for your input @Cuzzie

always used sm/beta58s but now using sennheiser 945 live

I have good mic technique I think.

I actually enjoy singing more than playing these days

keep the tips coming folks, I'm sure we'll all learn something here

[Bassfinger]

Run over yout neighbours cat with a lawn mower.  The resultant noises are far nicer to listen to than my singing.  I make Mark Knopfler sound like Pavarotti.

Edited November 10, 2020 by Bassfinger

[Cuzzie]

1 hour ago, police squad said:

thanks for your input @Cuzzie

always used sm/beta58s but now using sennheiser 945 live

I have good mic technique I think.

I actually enjoy singing more than playing these days

keep the tips coming folks, I'm sure we'll all learn something here

Great microphones, Shure are fine, but I think they tested on their laurels and took their eye off the game, Sennheiser are producing some very stellar pieces of equipment and probably pip them IMHO.

I use an e935 and love it, but it’s very on axis, and I almost have to be kissing the microphone for the best result for me. The big thing about having one like that I had to learn was how you rotate your head to look at your fingers occasionally on the fretboard.

Similar to what you describe about flexing your neck to get a different sound I actually have the mic coming from below pointing up so that I can get above it for that reason, or sit level with it normally

[police squad]

1 hour ago, Cuzzie said:

Great microphones, Shure are fine, but I think they tested on their laurels and took their eye off the game, Sennheiser are producing some very stellar pieces of equipment and probably pip them IMHO.

I use an e935 and love it, but it’s very on axis, and I almost have to be kissing the microphone for the best result for me. The big thing about having one like that I had to learn was how you rotate your head to look at your fingers occasionally on the fretboard.

Similar to what you describe about flexing your neck to get a different sound I actually have the mic coming from below pointing up so that I can get above it for that reason, or sit level with it normally

The 945 is closer proximity than the 935 ( I was informed when I researched going wireless) but sound wise it is better than the shure. 

I also realised that the choice of mixing desk makes a massive difference too.

[MacDaddy]

My lack of vocals has cost a few bands over the years. It's something I would like to sort, but where does one begin?

Are there any (ideally free) resources to get one started?

[Nail Soup]

I'm not a technically good singer, and would not have any technical tips to share. I'll listen to any tips which come up on this thread though.Only tip is this one:

My main focus for  getting the best way to sing a song is to 'get into character'. I try to imagine where the singer is coming from (e.g. sing Sex Pistols then get into the mindset of a weary sneering contempt for the whole world). For originals I think of a character for that song.

If someone asked me to sing a song by Bucks Fizz (and the following is just based on my personal prejudice.... so sorry and I may be doing Mike a disservice) I'd try to put myself in the position of someone who was trying to be nice, had never thought of music as a form of rebellion, was wearing a cardigan and singing to their grandma.

 

[uk_lefty]

13 hours ago, Nail Soup said:

If someone asked me to sing a song by Bucks Fizz (and the following is just based on my personal prejudice.... so sorry and I may be doing Mike a disservice) I'd try to put myself in the position of someone who was trying to be nice, had never thought of music as a form of rebellion, was wearing a cardigan and singing to their grandma.

But surely there's an underlying sinister thing lurking with the anticipation of ripping off Cheryl Baker's skirt? 

[police squad]

14 hours ago, MacDaddy said:

My lack of vocals has cost a few bands over the years. It's something I would like to sort, but where does one begin?

Are there any (ideally free) resources to get one started?

there's probably forums for singers, like basschat but that's another can of worms quite possibly

[Nail Soup]

14 hours ago, MacDaddy said:

My lack of vocals has cost a few bands over the years

Do you mean that you didn't get chosen by the band because they wanted someone who could do BVs?

[SpondonBassed]

7 minutes ago, police squad said:

there's probably forums for singers, like basschat but that's another can of worms quite possibly

Scatchat?

It's certainly another can of something...

Edited November 12, 2020 by SpondonBassed

[MacDaddy]

1 hour ago, Nail Soup said:

Do you mean that you didn't get chosen by the band because they wanted someone who could do BVs?

Yup.

[lozkerr]

15 hours ago, MacDaddy said:

My lack of vocals has cost a few bands over the years. It's something I would like to sort, but where does one begin?

Are there any (ideally free) resources to get one started?

Not free, but I've been having lessons from Ellen O'Reilly over Skype for a while. As she's a singing bassist, she definitely knows her stuff and she's a really good teacher. She'll push you, though.

https://www.ellenoreillymusic.com/ if you're interested.

We started off with singing scales backwards and forwards - doh-ray-me-fa-so-la-te-doh for major and doh-ray-ri-fa-so-se-li-doh for minor. Play the scale on your bass and sing along - that'll keep you in tune. Try switching between major and minor going up and down. It can trip you up, so take it easy. Also, make sure you practise standing up.

Then find a simple song that'll fit within your range. The genre doesn't matter, as this is a vocal exercise. I'm currently working on the Pretenders' I'll Stand By You. If you pick one you know well, watch you don't try to imitate the original - I don't sound anything like Chrissie Hynde but I caught myself trying to do so. You need to find your own voice.

You'll also need to work on your breathing. As @Cuzzie said, you control it from your diaphragm rather than squeezing it into your throat. I had some training a long time back and some of it's still there, but Dena Murray's Vocal Technique (ISBN 978-0-634-01319-5) has been a handy refresher course.

[CameronJ]

On 09/11/2020 at 16:01, police squad said:

I am singing, stood up, mic in Mic stand, standing tall. It's too rocky this way.

Then, after about 2 hours, removed the mic and slouched a bit. Slightly bent over and there it was. A softer timbre in my voice.

As you grow more familiar with what’s physiologically happening to allow you access to that softer part of your voice, you may well find that you’re eventually able to produce the softer tones without slouching, but instead engaging/relaxing the relevant areas of your larynx/pharynx, separate from your posture.

The big thing with singing is the old cliché of “practice makes perfect” - there’s no way around it. The more you do it the more you get to know how your body works and what you need to do to produce a certain sound. For example, establishing your realistic range is very important. How low can you go and how high can you go (in both chest voice and falsetto)? Write it down for reference.

Knowing at which notes you need to flip into falsetto is very important as you can pre-empt your “transition point” in a song and do it with control each time rather than just blagging it in the moment and potentially sounding like a strangled cat.

Also, as @Cuzzie says, don’t be afraid of transposing the song for comfort. It can be easy for pride/ego to kick in as a singer - it’s natural - but as much as we may desperately want to sing a song in the original key, the truth is 99.9% of the audience don’t know if you’ve taken it down (or up) a couple of semitones, so don’t be afraid to make life easier for yourself. Better to sing the song well in a transposed key than to stubbornly stick with the original and struggle every night. This is where having a 5 string bass comes in handy!

[Cuzzie]

Or a drop D lever!

[Cuzzie]

Good thing about dropping a tone or a semi tone - you don’t have to alter the frets/how you play - you can learn the original in its normal tuning, and then tune the whole bass down and you are still playing the same fingering 

[police squad]

14 hours ago, CameronJ said:

As you grow more familiar with what’s physiologically happening to allow you access to that softer part of your voice, you may well find that you’re eventually able to produce the softer tones without slouching, but instead engaging/relaxing the relevant areas of your larynx/pharynx, separate from your posture.

Yes, this is what I want to discover how to do

 

Knowing at which notes you need to flip into falsetto is very important as you can pre-empt your “transition point” in a song and do it with control each time rather than just blagging it in the moment and potentially sounding like a strangled cat.

I can flip to falsetto well, I do it quite often with the Police tribute

Also, as @Cuzzie says, don’t be afraid of transposing the song for comfort. It can be easy for pride/ego to kick in as a singer - it’s natural - but as much as we may desperately want to sing a song in the original key, the truth is 99.9% of the audience don’t know if you’ve taken it down (or up) a couple of semitones, so don’t be afraid to make life easier for yourself. Better to sing the song well in a transposed key than to stubbornly stick with the original and struggle every night. This is where having a 5 string bass comes in handy!

Agreed, especially if it's keyboard oriented. If it's written like AC/DC write, jangly guitar chords etc I dont like changing key because the guitars sound wrong. If I can't sing a song, I'll just leave it and move on in this case.

 

[ubit]

I am the singer in our band and I find that my throat tightens sometimes and I struggle to hit the higher notes after a while. I know its a poor solution but I always found a few pints of lager would loosen my throat and I could sing all night. It used to be a fine line because as I am also the bass player I didn't want to get too drunk to play. I do not condone drinking as a solution to singing problems but I found it worked for me. Possibly it was a placebo for stage fright as nerves would definitely tighten my throat. 

[lurksalot]

I would love to comment here but I suspect I am not exactly an authority on this.

if I’m honest I think some people ( like me) need to put a lot of effort and practice in to even get in tune , never mind develop a timbre, and I don’t seem to have enough time to get results. 

then you find some who just open there throats with the voice of an angel naturally , jealous , me , as if 

[Lfalex v1.1]

I can't sing and play at the same time. 

Hell, I can't even speak and play at the same time. 

Playing seems to take over all my linguistic abilities for its own ends, no matter how well I know the tune,  how well rehearsed I am etc. etc.

If you were to hear me "sing", you'd know why I play an instrument. It's on time and in tune. The words are right,  but it lacks any tone, timbre, harmonic content. 

That, and the fact that I'd be a baritone at best make me utterly 💩

[Cuzzie]

Warm up the voice before the gig, start with an easy song, put the difficult one in the middle when on a roll, know when voice fatigue hits in and make your sets an appropriate length

[police squad]

9 hours ago, Cuzzie said:

Warm up the voice before the gig, start with an easy song, put the difficult one in the middle when on a roll, know when voice fatigue hits in and make your sets an appropriate length

absolutely

I spent 45 minutes running through some stuff yesterday, all in a lower register, then tried the BF song at the end and it felt much more comfortable

[Mokl]

On 14/11/2020 at 22:46, Lfalex v1.1 said:

I can't sing and play at the same time. 

Hell, I can't even speak and play at the same time. 

Playing seems to take over all my linguistic abilities for its own ends, no matter how well I know the tune,  how well rehearsed I am etc. etc.

If you were to hear me "sing", you'd know why I play an instrument. It's on time and in tune. The words are right,  but it lacks any tone, timbre, harmonic content. 

That, and the fact that I'd be a baritone at best make me utterly 💩

I could have written this post 😉

[Phil Starr]

Following this with interest. I've nothing to offer in the way of tips, I'm hoping to learn. I always thought I couldn't sing and I still don't do much but with band members desperately searching around for someone to do something to support the song I've very tentatively given it a go.

By describing myself as a non-singer I mean awful. I was told not to sing in assemblies or lessons as a child. My own kids fall around laughing at my attempts to sing and I had nothing but negative comments for 50 years at least. 

However I discovered I could hold a note with decent stage monitors. It's not a nice sound but it is in tune. I started off with one chorus and one song. No-one threw anything and my duo partner was encouraging and gradually I've added in bits. The moral of the story is that it gets easier with practice, I only do backing vocals, my range isn't great and for some reason I struggle with songs in E or B, also vowel sounds. On a good day I can sing in tune without monitors but only songs I've practiced. I've never thought of singing as a learned skill, I assumed you had to have some talent and I know most people find it easier than I do but when I do sing the audience join in and when I don't we get less of a response. Give it a go if you are a non singer, wherever you are at you can improve.