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It's different with other people


lownote
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I continue to be astonished how different a set up can sound in a band context versus at home alone. 'cause I'm such a grumpy old sod the majority of my experience is the latter.  When just occasionally someone is silly enough to let me join their band I am amazed at how EQ settings, even choice of bass and amp, that sound great on their own can sound totally different in the mix and have to be changed quite substantionally to sound good.  I 'spose it's harmonics or something - anyone know the theory as to why this should be so? 

Edited by lownote12
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Not so much at home, as I tend to play unplugged at home, but the difference between rooms always gets me, especially having to have quite a mid heavy tone on stage to make the lower frequencies sound good out front.

I think volume also has a huge amount of influence in the home vs band difference.

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This is one of the main reasons I'm not a tone chaser. Also why I know that the SVT is, and in all probability will remain, the finest amp I ever played through. 

I've come to enjoy the tone I get at home but never chase it in a gig. Too many variables Rooms vary, ebb and flow of bodies changes things, sound engineers make you sound how they like it, and different mates or band members giving you the nod in a pub soundcheck have their concept of levels too. 

And most importantly what I hear won't be what the audience hears anyway. 

The SVT by the way just sounded awesome in every single setting. 

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The same theory applies to isolated bass tracks, they always sound slightly off, or slightly harsh, however work in the mix.

I guess it's to do with frequencies needed to fit in a band mix over those you find pleasurable to your ear.

At home I like to use alnico pickups, they sound warm and smooth. However I find ceramic pickups cut through better in a live context, despite sounding harsh and lacking the low end of alnico's.

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Yes, it’s taken me along a long and interesting journey to realise that the tone I use at home isn’t the right one for band use, and that a scratchy/rattly/gainy sound isolated comes across in the mix as a really good bass presence. All learned via Basschat I should add, though I’m sure someone somewhere will provide statistics that prove otherwise 🤣

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All of which puts doubt on that old mantra 'you gotta try it before you buy it'.  Unless you take your band into the shop its all guesswork, luck and extrapolation.

I just noticed I'm only three posts away from 1000. Cool.

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There are probably many reasons why things sound different in isolation. I guess the main two to be aware of in a band context are doubling and masking. In an ensemble, each instrument has its place in the overall harmonic spectrum. There are often clashes between instruments. Typically for the bass its with keyboards, but also with guitars, especially if the guitar player(s) like a lot of low end in the eq settings they use (probably because they too spend most of their time playing at home on their own and don't appreciate the need to fit round or leave space for other instruments). The result is that either certain frequencies can be over-emphasised (doubling) or they cancel each other (masking).

That lovely clean, hi-fi bass tone you like at home will often sound a bit limp in a band context and will need boosting in the upper bass/low mids to have the right presence in the mix. Imho, that's a big part of the reason a P bass works so well in so many settings. It has that tonal quality baked in. I agree with stewblack and Lozz. No point in getting hung up on "tone", unless, of course, you play solo bass gigs. No point in bleating to sound engineers that the bass sound isn't to your liking, either. He/she is trying to make it work in context of the overall sound.

Edited by Dan Dare
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2 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

also with guitars, especially if the guitar player(s) like a lot of low end in the eq settings they use (probably because they too spend most of their time playing at home on their own and don't appreciate the need to fit round or leave space for other instruments)

Just brought back memories of an horrendous guitar player filling the stage and the room with bottom end. So loud, so overwhelming that I just stopped playing. I couldn't be heard. He was blithely unaware. When I asked him afterwards if he had noticed he had no idea what I meant.

Cloth eared twerp.

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14 hours ago, stewblack said:

Just brought back memories of an horrendous guitar player filling the stage and the room with bottom end. So loud, so overwhelming that I just stopped playing.

Been there. Guitards should be banned from using anything other than open backed cabs, which have limited low frequency response. Imho, of course.

Edited by Dan Dare
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On 20/10/2020 at 10:34, Lozz196 said:

Yes, it’s taken me along a long and interesting journey to realise that the tone I use at home isn’t the right one for band use, and that a scratchy/rattly/gainy sound isolated comes across in the mix as a really good bass presence. All learned via Basschat I should add, though I’m sure someone somewhere will provide statistics that prove otherwise 🤣

Some of the Steve Slate tutorials has you doing strange things to a bass track when mixing, really pushing the higher end - 3.2k upwards, duplicating tracks and pushing the pre-amp on the 2nd channel for dirt/drive etc. but yeah, it does work!

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