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Zoom pedal hack - anyone tried it yet?


Earbrass

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7 hours ago, slickerbass said:

Hi. Sorry I hadn't signed in for a while - was too busy working on Zoom G5.

 

I made a lot of progress with the ZDL format - so we can know the FXID and GID now. Alas whilst we can use sysex to set the FXID I haven't found how to set the GID.

 

Which means you have to inject the modified FX in via full patch. And this is the way Tonelib and G1On (SysexTones) do it.

 

I have a G5n now for my birthday - so will be updating my pages for:

 

G1XFour 

B1XFOUR 

G3n

G5n

GCE-3 

 

and

B1ON

MS-70 CDR

 

And G5.

 

I group them because the first set is controllable and modified by Mungewell's techniques (and my derived works). These are ZD2 FX.

 

The 2nd set are harder to control but modifiable by Zoom Device Manager 

 

The 3rd series AFAIK are not injectable but are a lot of fun. Build like a tank but mine is in bad shape - the eBay seller was not as candid regarding pedals state as he could have been.

 

I have added Sysex for most of these to my wiki and check code in.

 

If you want to collaborate then hit me up via the issues tab.

 

My plans are

 

1 - edit some unboxing videos and first impressions on the G3n, G5n, MS-70 CDR.

2 - use the XML format from edit&share ro help check patch reverse engineering from G5. I am hoping this will give insight into pedal parameter assignment - this isnpossible on G5 (especially  the Z plane) and might throw some insight to the G(x)n series.

3 - release G5 control software

4 - explore the G5n and compare with the GCE-3 G5n emulation.

5 - update my b1xfour python (this determines type of pedal and reverse engineers content on the fly)

6 - Look into the MS-70 CDR but in processed sysex space. All of the work I seen so far is in raw space and this make the interpretation more complex. Of course good that it works but I prefer simpler approach.

 

I post on my YT - hope to get more regular again.

 

I don't have an Ms60 but I'd you have the cycles to trial some of the sysex and help populate the wiki that would be cool. I suspect it is ZDL FX.

If I get a chance I Will download the firmware and see if my tools can pull out content. But Barsik's code is better suited to aspects of it. If it is a ZDL base then the stuff I put in the B1On DerivedData folder is likely applicable.

 

I have an MS-60B. Sadly, even tho' I make a living out of software consulting and development, I'm ignorant about most of what you're talking about. I'm fluent with all Zoom functionality and custom firmware, just have rarely used librarian software with my Zoom gear (either Zoom's own or 3rd party). Still I think with precise instructions I can test whatever you need, for sure. Just frop me a line, no problem, real happy to contribute.

Edited by andruca
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  • 2 months later...
On 11/02/2021 at 08:27, funkydoug said:

just to add to the collective experience of this...

I managed to add effects from the B3n to my G3n meaning I have an all-in-one pedal for bass and guitar . Also, I prefer the G3n's black look to the red of the B3n, just sayin' :) 

Initially I  tried to do it on a Macbook but couldn't. Once I fired up my old windows machine it was pretty easy. If anyone wants the detail of how I did it I'm happy to oblige as I get the feeling it would not be a walk in the park for everyone.

Heya! Just got a zoom g3n and i love it. i play bass in one band and guitar in another so i'm wildly interested in how to convert it so i can use it for both. mostly interested in being able to use the b3n patches because so many more of them have a 'blend' or 'mix' function that a lot of the g3n effects don't (like phaser specifically). would you mind walking me through how to do this? any help would be greatly appreciated!! thank you so much!

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Hi @Nosupervision,

From memory you’ll need to download three things:

1. the V2 firmware for the G3n

2. the editor software 

3. the zoom effect blocks.

 

once you have them, make sure your unit has the v2 firmware.

Then open the software editor on a windows PC. What it does is allow you to create a customised version of V2 firmware in which you can delete unwanted effects and add other ones (including bass ones) .

 

Once you are happy with your custom list of fx you save it as a new file and then use the firmware update process to load it onto your machine as a custom version of the firmware.

 

This is what I did, happy to give you more detail if you want but please proceed with caution and of course if you’re not comfortable with doing this probably leave it to someone familiar with computers! I am not a computer genius by any stretch but it worked for me… but of course I can offer you no guarantees, just sharing my experience 

 

Edited by funkydoug
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  • 1 month later...
On 11/02/2021 at 14:27, funkydoug said:

just to add to the collective experience of this...

I managed to add effects from the B3n to my G3n meaning I have an all-in-one pedal for bass and guitar . Also, I prefer the G3n's black look to the red of the B3n, just sayin' :) 

Initially I  tried to do it on a Macbook but couldn't. Once I fired up my old windows machine it was pretty easy. If anyone wants the detail of how I did it I'm happy to oblige as I get the feeling it would not be a walk in the park for everyone.

Hello, iam really interested in putting the g3n effects to my b3n. Can you please help how can I do that? Thank you very much for your help 

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Returning to this thread just to recommend the Z Bottom not available on the bass pedals but aimed at guitarists,

Works like dream for bass. No loss of low frequencies. No feedback, no need for noise gate, its awesome.

 

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On 18/02/2022 at 15:49, stewblack said:

Returning to this thread just to recommend the Z Bottom not available on the bass pedals but aimed at guitarists,

Works like dream for bass. No loss of low frequencies. No feedback, no need for noise gate, its awesome.

 

 

COOL! What Zoom model does that Z-Bottom come from?

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  • 2 months later...
On 26/12/2021 at 17:37, Nosupervision said:

Heya! Just got a zoom g3n and i love it. i play bass in one band and guitar in another so i'm wildly interested in how to convert it so i can use it for both. mostly interested in being able to use the b3n patches because so many more of them have a 'blend' or 'mix' function that a lot of the g3n effects don't (like phaser specifically). would you mind walking me through how to do this? any help would be greatly appreciated!! thank you so much!

For the newer Zoom G5n series I have called info here - "GitHub - shooking/ZoomPedalFun: A collection of tips and tricks for Zoom B1On, B1XFour and G1XFour pedals." https://github.com/shooking/ZoomPedalFun

 

I use Mungewell's zoom-zt2 and there are videos of how to add/remove FX. The latest video shows how to turn of G1XFour into a B1XFour (except it knows it is a G1XFour).

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16 hours ago, slickerbass said:

For the newer Zoom G5n series I have called info here - "GitHub - shooking/ZoomPedalFun: A collection of tips and tricks for Zoom B1On, B1XFour and G1XFour pedals." https://github.com/shooking/ZoomPedalFun

 

I use Mungewell's zoom-zt2 and there are videos of how to add/remove FX. The latest video shows how to turn of G1XFour into a B1XFour (except it knows it is a G1XFour).

What a wonderful resource, thank you so much. I'm no computer programmer so much of it is gobbledegook to me, but it's still very good of you to do this

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On 26/04/2022 at 12:58, stewblack said:

What a wonderful resource, thank you so much. I'm no computer programmer so much of it is gobbledegook to me, but it's still very good of you to do this

I welcome any suggestions on how to make things more accessible. For me I wanted to control the pedal from a touchscreen with a Pi - getting older and can't see the darned icons so well. The Zoom and Tonelib doesn't render FX added using Mungewell's zoom-zt2. Hence I added a sime GUI - I could make tactile controls etc but a decent touchscreen seems to work well.

 

Also any feature requests welcome. Or any other links to resources I can link.

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Posted (edited)

This hack made it possible for me to load all the effects I am interested in, and honestly more than I will ever use, into my G1Xon, which I love, and honestly think this and the B1Xon is the best multi effect pedal Zoom ever made, love how it is possible to assign the build in expression pedal, which by the way responds really nicely, to control any parameter of any effect model in a given patch, and in whatever direction and range you wish, and in my opinion Zoom's newer generation of multi effect units and digital effect models is a downgrade compared to this (and yes, I do actually own both a G1 Four and a B1 Four, but after initially trying them out, and to my disappointment concluding them to be inferior to my G1Xon, they have been left unused), both in terms of features/functionality, tweakability, but actually also in terms of sound quality of the units and effect models.

 

Have more or less the same effect models loaded on both my Zoom MS-70CDR and Zoom G1Xon, except I exchanged the few expression pedal controlled specific effects I have loaded on my G1Xon for some other effects, plus the storage space for effect models is slightly larger on the MS-70CDR, so I have a few additional effects loaded on that as well.

 

Also I just bought a used B1Xon, exclusively to keep as a backup in case my G1Xon should ever stop working, since this multi effect has been discontinued, and since it is one of my absolute favorite pedals and plays a quite essential role in my pedal setup as well (basically takes care of all my reverb needs, including an always on subtle plate reverb into a really subtle spring reverb patch, and then additionally a reverse delay patch and an expression pedal controlled LPF envelope filter, "wah" pedal, patch).

 

And thanks to this hack I can make the B1Xon that I, as said, just bought as a backup to my G1Xon, an exact identical backup replacement (Though I must admit that I strictly visually have a slight preference for the blue knobs of the G1Xon vs the red ones of the B1Xon :crazy:).

 

 

Edited by Baloney Balderdash
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Posted (edited)
On 02/05/2022 at 11:27, Baloney Balderdash said:

G1Xon, which I love, and honestly think this and the B1Xon is the best multi effect pedal Zoom ever made

 

Exactly my impression. If it had a DI out and could be used as an audio interface (such as the G3) it'd be perfect for me, I'd probably have both a B1Xon and a G1Xon (I only own a G1Xon) and get rid of anything else. I've also been to the newer generation (extensively tested the G3n and even owned a B1Xfour for some months) and they simply don't sound as good (notoriously boxy and noisy in comparison). I got the Four mostly because of the Darkglass models, but the bad tone defeated the purpose (even the SansAmp emulation I base most of my patches on is damm poor in comparison to any previous gen I own -MS-60B, B3, G1Xon-). The other thing people appreciate in the newer generation is the hi pass filter. Both of these matters have a workaround on the older gen. For one there's the ACBS Pre (modelled after a Fishman pre) that has a "depth" parameter, which is indeed a hi-pass filter (even I, a Zoom freak, learned about this just a couple years ago). Also, the Darkglass tone can be faked real close once you take the time to go thru' the various ODs available to find the right kind of grit/grain (in my case thru' the BA Squeak, a blendable RAT emulation). I built this patch with a GUMA-Drive (B3K clone) I built side by side with my G1Xon (on customized firmware with all bass relavant stuff from the B1Xon). I'm using all 5 pedal slots, but the basics of the tone are there even when getting rid of the ZNR (when using my MS-60B, 4 slots max) or also the PEQ (when using my B3, just 3 slots).

 

 

Still, as always, waiting for Zoom's next gen, of course. Just have experienced the latest (B3n, B1four/Xfour) generation to be a step back in tone (same thing happened many years back, I got a B2.1u and after much trying I kept using my 708II, sounded better).

Edited by andruca
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, andruca said:

Exactly my impression. If it had a DI out and could be used as an audio interface (such as the G3) it'd be perfect for me, I'd probably have both a B1Xon and a G1Xon (I only own a G1Xon) and get rid of anything else. I've also been to the newer generation (extensively tested the G3n and even owned a B1Xfour for some months) and they simply don't sound as good (notoriously boxy and noisy in comparison). I got the Four mostly because of the Darkglass models, but the bad tone defeated the purpose (even the SansAmp emulation I base most of my patches on is damm poor in comparison to any previous gen I own -MS-60B, B3, G1Xon-). The other thing people appreciate in the newer generation is the hi pass filter. Both of these matters have a workaround on the older gen. For one there's the ACBS Pre (modelled after a Fishman pre) that has a "depth" parameter, which is indeed a hi-pass filter (even I, a Zoom freak, learned about this just a couple years ago). Also, the Darkglass tone can be faked real close once you take the time to go thru' the various ODs available to find the right kind of grit/grain (in my case thru' the BA Squeak, a blendable RAT emulation). I built this patch with a GUMA-Drive (B3K clone) I built side by side with my G1Xon (on customized firmware with all bass relavant stuff from the B1Xon). I'm using all 5 pedal slots, but the basics of the tone are there even when getting rid of the ZNR (when using my MS-60B, 4 slots max) or also the PEQ (when using my B3, just 3 slots).

 

 

Still, as always, waiting for Zoom's next gen, of course. Just have experienced the latest (B3n, B1four/Xfour) generation to be a step back in tone (same thing happened many years back, I got a B2.1u and after much trying I kept using my 708II, sounded better).

You can sort of mimic a HPF or LPF by stacking several parametric EQs too, using the bass specific parametric equalizer model as it has a wider range of boost/cut, and experimenting with the exact settings in a DAW with a VST based parametric equalizer first so that you get a graphic representation to base your settings on, in terms of getting the amount of cut, frequency and Q value just right.

 

Also, not to dis you in any way, but with the firmware effect model hack it makes absolutely no sense to get the MS-60B (except of course if you are a collector of Zoom pedals), when you for the same price can get the MS-70CDR that unlike the MS-60B got both stereo in and outs as well as allows for a maximum of up to 6 effect models per patch, vs. the just up to 4 effect models maximum per patch of the MS-60B, plus perhaps possibly (I got no idea if this is actually the case though) also having more storage space for adding additional effect models (as I mentioned in my previous reply it at least have slightly more storage space for adding additional effect models than the G1Xon).

Edited by Baloney Balderdash
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

it makes absolutely no sense to get the MS-60B

 

100% right. It doesn't NOWADAYS. The firmware editor just didn't exist back when I got it as a gift in 2015. 😉 Looking forward to swap it for a MS-50G soon indeed (no need for stereo input, also the CDR is more expensive even used 'round here, just need the extra slots).

Edited by andruca
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  • 3 weeks later...
Posted (edited)

Hi y'all! I've successfully hacked an MS-50G I got. Didn't use the firmware editor this time (had trouble related to the absence of a FLST_SEQ.ZDT file) so I went with the (also unofficial) Zoom Effect Manager, making a list from scratch with effects from any model really. I basically added almost everything from the DYN/FLT/DRV/AMPSIM/BASS DRV/BASS AMPSIM groups, plenty from MOD/SFX, 6 DELAYs and 7 REVERBs. Perfectly fit as a 6 slot MS-60B while still guitar capable. Here's a little clip of a couple 3 slot patches (my "clean" and a dirtier tone) played thru' the 4 bass enabled Zoom multiFX I own nowadays (also own a G3 which can't be hacked, same thing with the B3, that's why I own both). As expected hey sound exactly the same (using the master level at 100 in the B3 and G1Xon produces roughly the same output as the MultiStomps -no master level on them-, G1Xon might be just a tad quiet).

 

 

Also, was successful in making several patches with 5 bass FX plus ZNR, such as my B3K inspired "DarkRAT" patch, which goes Ba Squeak > BassDrive > BassPEQ > BassPEQ > 160Comp > ZNR. Works like a charm. No DSP overloads with the kind of FX I use. I've read that delays/reverbs are the most DSP demanding FX, don't know any science behind it, but still wonder why Zoom never expanded the slot capability of the MS-60B. Why not let me stack any number of FX up to the DSP limit? It appears to be safe for the device, which will definitely let you know when you're exceeding capacity and will simply omit the offending effect (and any of the models I own will do it even with the slot limit if you put enough reverbs/delays/"twin" effects, not even the 3 slot B3 gets away with some outrageous combinations). Would be much more functional, it's even unfair for us who mostly use undemanding FX and would like to add the additional EQ/exciter/noise reduction and just can't, not because of lack of CPU but because of the silly slot limit.

 

Might stick with Zoom Effect Manager 1.1.1, hadn't used it before, nice app. Sharing an export of the FX selection now installed in my MS-50G for anyone interested (also human readable if you're curious). Will probably install the same selection into my MS-60B, which I'll probably keep as a backup.

Edited by andruca
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