niceguyhomer Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Bloody hell - after the debacle that was last Sunday's gig in Heysham nr. Morecambe, I was looking forward to this coming Friday's gig at an establishment in Burnley. Our drummer is away for the weekend so my mate and ex-band drummer Big Mick was standing in so I was really, really looking forward to it. So I drove the 20 miles to Burnley to take some more posters to make sure we get a good crowd in. I walked in and got attacked by the landlady's jack russell and then, just before I launched the pesky little critter into outer space courtesy of my Doc Martin shoes, the landlady appeared. Undeterred, I handed said posters to the blank faced landlady and she said "but you're not playing here on Friday", to which I said "yes we are, it was booked in January", to which she replied.." ah yes, but that was booked with the old landlord, I didn't book you so you're not playing here this week". She thinks we're gonna turn up at the one she booked for November - yeh right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odub Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Which Pub was that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Name and shame. It doesn't matter who booked it from the pub - get them to pay you back the costs of publishing your posters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 How incredibly annoying, and rude. What did you say to her? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowhand_mike Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 suprised you didn't launch said jack russell at her well at least you didn't all turn up on friday with your kit to find that one out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cetera Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 I had that happen once.... except it was on the night. The landlord had changed and the new one had not honoured the old bookings. As a band we all turned up together on the night, loaded our gear in and when the landlord told us we weren't playing we refused to leave until we were all paid our travel/petrol expenses. The landlord threatened to call the police if we didn't leave.... so we invited him to do so. After a couple of minutes of umm-ing and ah-ing he decided it wasn't worth the hassle & gave us £60, so we loaded up the van and went for a beer 'on him' next door at his 'competitor' pub'!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 [quote name='cetera' post='46308' date='Aug 16 2007, 11:43 AM']As a band we all turned up together on the night, loaded our gear in and when the landlord told us we weren't playing we refused to leave until we were all paid our travel/petrol expenses. The landlord threatened to call the police if we didn't leave.... so we invited him to do so. After a couple of minutes of umm-ing and ah-ing he decided it wasn't worth the hassle & gave us £60, so we loaded up the van and went for a beer 'on him' next door at his 'competitor' pub'!! [/quote] Nice one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 A new landlord not honouring the old landlord's bookings? Just plain lazy, unprofessional, breathtakingly rude. These bloody people deserve to go out of business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cantdosleepy Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Or at least, boo them for not making the effort to get in contact with the booked acts. If you've just taken on a new business, I don't think you should be under any obligation to carry it on in the same way as the last owner. They should be free to cancel old bookings. But they do have to tell the booked acts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 But that's saying when a company gets bought by someone new, it shouldn't have to respect any of its existing contracts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 [quote name='Cantdosleepy' post='46330' date='Aug 16 2007, 12:01 PM']If you've just taken on a new business, I don't think you should be under any obligation to carry it on in the same way as the last owner. They should be free to cancel old bookings.[/quote]Well yes, that's true I guess. But at the very least they should have the decency to tell the acts they've been cancelled. There's really no excuse not to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Brooks Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 For those of us used to the Steve Travers pub circuit in London, this can be a weekly occurrence! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Name and shame as a warning to others. Hamster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 [quote name='Cantdosleepy' post='46330' date='Aug 16 2007, 12:01 PM']Or at least, boo them for not making the effort to get in contact with the booked acts. If you've just taken on a new business, I don't think you should be under any obligation to carry it on in the same way as the last owner. They should be free to cancel old bookings. But they do have to tell the booked acts.[/quote] We've had this happen to us a couple of times (it happens when you've been together with the same line-up for 14/15 years) and luckily our guitarist is a solicitor specialising in employment law, we got paid! You need to establish who your contract is with (yes a phone call is a verbal contract); landlord, pub, brewery etc. then you 'can' do something about it. We tend to confirm with pubs a couple of days before a gig now, just to be on the safe side. I know of a band who when they take any gig they have a standard contract written up which they sign with the landlord/pub owner etc. and it stipulates what will happen in the event of a gig being cancelled - a sliding scale of remuneration for notice given of the cancellation. However it has backfired on them once or twice as they have had to cancel and clued up landlords have demanded fees from them... they hadn't considered that. There contract hasn't been modified in this light as they feel it is to their advantage to hope the pub doesn't notice if/when 'they' need to cancel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceguyhomer Posted August 16, 2007 Author Share Posted August 16, 2007 Twas The Woodman Inn on Todmorden Road. Reading between the lines here, and putting two and two together for a moment, it [i]could[/i] be the plot has maybe thickened a bit. We started playing in Burnley last Xmas when somebody recommended us to a landlord. Turns out he ran a card school on a Thursday night where all the local landlords got together and it is there at one of these meetings, word spread that we weren't a bad band. So - for the last few months, we've been up and down the M65 every other week. Then, in May we gave notice to one of the pubs that we had to cancel a gig at the back end of August and the guy absolutely flipped - even though we gave him 3 months notice. He told us to cancel all our future bookings. I wonder.....na...but then again...maybe....could it be a case of kicking one and they all limp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odub Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 The woodman used to be alright, some years ago. My family own various pubs in Burnley but I'm glad to say not that one. I doubt its all the landlords getting in on you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 [quote name='niceguyhomer' post='46442' date='Aug 16 2007, 02:25 PM']Twas The Woodman Inn on Todmorden Road. Reading between the lines here, and putting two and two together for a moment, it [i]could[/i] be the plot has maybe thickened a bit. We started playing in Burnley last Xmas when somebody recommended us to a landlord. Turns out he ran a card school on a Thursday night where all the local landlords got together and it is there at one of these meetings, word spread that we weren't a bad band. So - for the last few months, we've been up and down the M65 every other week. Then, in May we gave notice to one of the pubs that we had to cancel a gig at the back end of August and the guy absolutely flipped - even though we gave him 3 months notice. He told us to cancel all our future bookings. I wonder.....na...but then again...maybe....could it be a case of kicking one and they all limp?[/quote] May not have been his recreational buddies! (Cue another anecdote) To help out a new tenant in one of our regular pub gigs (well it kept us the gig anyway) we agree to drop our usual £200 fee down to £160 for the next gig or two, to enable him to pull the place around. Lo-and-behold within a couple of months we had major grief with the rebooking of certain gigs at the usual £200 fee. Turns out the guy had been discussing bands/karaoke/Discos etc with his area manager and had said he'd had good takings on the night we played and we'd only cost £160. Area managers tend to be clued up about such stuff and told his other pubs the rate that we'd charged, hence our problems. We only found out because the daughter of a family friend had taken over the tenancy in another local bar and the area manager had given her the low down on band fees and it just so happened that she knew me personally! Beware of doing 'favours', it took us a couple of years to recover our fees back to there normal level after that one . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceguyhomer Posted August 16, 2007 Author Share Posted August 16, 2007 [quote name='odub' post='46467' date='Aug 16 2007, 03:15 PM']The woodman used to be alright, some years ago. My family own various pubs in Burnley but I'm glad to say not that one. I doubt its all the landlords getting in on you[/quote] You're right odub. It's probably genuine - the outgoing landlord may not have told the incoming but we've done two gigs there since the change which made me a bit suspicious. The other thing is she went and got the diary and came out with the page for November 17th open saying "this is when you're booked in" but didn't appear to want to open the page for this Friday, which would have cleared the misunderstanding immediately. I must be getting cynical in my old age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cetera Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 [quote name='niceguyhomer' post='46475' date='Aug 16 2007, 03:26 PM']didn't appear to want to open the page for this Friday, which would have cleared the misunderstanding immediately.[/quote] Sounds like she got a different band in for less money or an event in paying her more money.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowhand_mike Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 i'd be down there on friday to see exactly what she's up to, sounds dead shifty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceguyhomer Posted August 16, 2007 Author Share Posted August 16, 2007 [quote name='lowhand_mike' post='46484' date='Aug 16 2007, 03:44 PM']i'd be down there on friday to see exactly what she's up to, sounds dead shifty.[/quote] How grimly fiendish Come to think of it, I'm not doing anything Friday - sounds like a plan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alun Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 (edited) Sorry to hear about that. I've not had that happen, but have had a few occasions where things have been booked by a previous owner and the new ones are clearly begrudgingly honouring commitments so you end up with a sh!te atmosphere all night and they do everything they can to be awkward. Another fun one was where I was booked with a trio to play two sets on a Sunday afternoon. It started badly when we got there and the new owner's mate's gear was on the stage so we had to set up on the floor. Then we were told that we couldn't use the PA, contrary to what the original booker had agreed so the guitarist had to go home and get his. Finally, we finished the second set and were packing down when the owner comes rushing over and says that all bands do three sets and began arguing over the fee. We didn't play there again! Alun EDIT - forgot to name the venue - Cafe Cesso on the Marina in Swansea. May have improved now as that was last summer but I haven't bothered finding out. Edited August 16, 2007 by Alun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freuds_Cat Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 The days of doing door deals @ $10 a head to 500-1000 people and having a total overhead cost of $1000 are long gone here. These days bands are lucky to get 100 - 150 people even with free entry. That said, we have a rule that our base rate is $600. If they want to talk us down or start mucking about with other forms of payment we just walk away full stop no further discussion. This helps other bands get better rates and always means that we get a decent fee. I'm coming up for my 900th show sometime early next year and I can honestly say I've never been in a band where the show was cancelled on the night. Usually its the opposite. ie today I had a phone call from our guit4ri5t to say that one of our regular venues wants us there tomorrow night. This happens about 4 or 5 times a year I would say. We dont use contracts these days and if we do get any kind of payment issues then we sort it out on the night and 1. refuse any further gigs there or 2. make it clear what the conditions are for next time. Seems to work OK for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizbat Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 So guys!!! what happened? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freuds_Cat Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 [quote name='wizbat' post='47077' date='Aug 18 2007, 05:40 PM']So guys!!! what happened?[/quote] +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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