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fretmeister

Mesa amps price cuts. No more middle man

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Andertons have just confirmed that Mesa are selling direct to the stores now so there are price cuts.

I have no idea how much the Mesa bass amps were before but one that I am familiar with - the Dual Rectifier - was £3100 and has now dropped to £2349. A reduction of £751.

 

I (and others too) have been moaning about Westside and their pricing for years. Seems like someone has finally realised that UK sales were being harmed.

 

For guitar amps the used market shouldn't suffer. Dual Recs sell at £1000 to £1200 and I can't see them dropping much. That's still half price.

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Posted (edited)

This is literally massive news. I applaud Mesa for taking this step which is long overdue, as the high prices were putting the amps out of reach for many players. 

The mark ups have become utterly unacceptable over the years. This is great news. 

Edit:

The Subway 4x10 has come down from over £2k to £1,639 on Andertons. Still expensive but not completely unreasonable for a premium 4x10. 

The WD800 is up on Andertons for £1,039 which I would say is pretty damn good for the quality about the same with the Darkglass 900 series.

Edited by thodrik
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Posted (edited)

I wonder if this thread had anything to do with it?

The guy from Mesa really engaged, but he really wasn't able to address the core questions re price, and I strongly suspect not many sold (if only on the basis that BC is a good barometer and if enough people on BC buy a new to market item there tends to be a flurry of them for same used a few months later)? 

Good news either way. Or would be if I had any money. Hope the isn't a disaster for Westside, the guys there were very good, and I guess if Mesa's policy was to work through a local agent in each territory, the pricing issue wasn't really their fault? 

Edited by Beedster
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Posted (edited)

Yaaaaay!

Agedhorse is a really good chap but, despite his best efforts, he really struggled to justify the fact that Mesa prices over here were 30% higher in comparison to the mark up on other US-made bass gear, on that thread you linked Beedster.

Afraid I don't have any sympathy for Westside over this. With the amounts they were pocketing in transit, at UK bass players' expense on Mesa products, they could afford to be "very good".

That WD800 is back on my GAS list - and there might now even be a bit of spare cash for some nitro gloss on any future AC bass purchases we make 😁

Edited by Al Krow
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40 minutes ago, Beedster said:

I wonder if this thread had anything to do with it?

The guy from Mesa really engaged, but he really wasn't able to address the core questions re price, and I strongly suspect not many sold (if only on the basis that BC is a good barometer and if enough people on BC buy a new to market item there tends to be a flurry of them for same used a few months later)? 

Good news either way. Or would be if I had any money. Hope the isn't a disaster for Westside, the guys there were very good, and I guess if Mesa's policy was to work through a local agent in each territory, the pricing issue wasn't really their fault? 

Those sorts of threads have been on many forums for years but as far as I know this is the first one where Mesa have engaged with it.

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Corona has kicked amp sales in the nuts too, which is a shame because if I was gigging like I was meant to in 2020 a wd800 would be arriving in the post Thursday. Wife stops play!

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Oh no!!! Who will bail out Westside Distribution when they can't totally fleece us anymore?!! I hear a faint screeching sound of the world's smallest violin.

When I was younger I wanted to own a Mesa 412 for bass. I injured my knee really badly in my 20s and decided that heavy gear wasn't going to work, but I never really let go of my dream until recently when I've ben using a Vanderkley 2x12 which kills. 

Every year I saw the price get even more insane. I resolved that I'd never pay something that was basically marked up to the clouds. Westside are truly awful. I decided when I read (whether it's true or not it sounds true) that they weren't going to service Mesa boogie gear not bought in the UK.

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1 minute ago, Wolverinebass said:

 I decided when I read (whether it's true or not it sounds true) that they weren't going to service Mesa boogie gear not bought in the UK.

Under warranty, you mean? Or at all, even if you paid them?

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11 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

Under warranty, you mean? Or at all, even if you paid them?

I think it was under warranty. I can't remember where I read that, though I'm afraid. I just remember I did.

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1 minute ago, Wolverinebass said:

I think it was under warranty. I can't remember where I read that, though I'm afraid. I just remember I did.

Well in that case, it's standard practice. I wouldn't expect them to.

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1 minute ago, wateroftyne said:

Well in that case, it's standard practice. I wouldn't expect them to.

That sucks dude. If it's true of course.

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5 hours ago, fretmeister said:

Those sorts of threads have been on many forums for years but as far as I know this is the first one where Mesa have engaged with it.

100% true. Why should they fix something for free when they didn't get a cut of the original sale?

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Oh dear. Does this mean more guitar players will be able to afford the means to deafen us?

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This is likely C-19 related. Sales of everything entertainment related are down, because nobody's working very much if at all. so I'd expect manufacturers to find ways to cut retail prices to increase sales. Don't be surprised to see many more manufacturers selling direct on the internet.

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10 hours ago, Wolverinebass said:

Oh no!!! Who will bail out Westside Distribution when they can't totally fleece us anymore?!! I hear a faint screeching sound of the world's smallest violin.

When I was younger I wanted to own a Mesa 412 for bass. I injured my knee really badly in my 20s and decided that heavy gear wasn't going to work, but I never really let go of my dream until recently when I've ben using a Vanderkley 2x12 which kills. 

Every year I saw the price get even more insane. I resolved that I'd never pay something that was basically marked up to the clouds. Westside are truly awful. I decided when I read (whether it's true or not it sounds true) that they weren't going to service Mesa boogie gear not bought in the UK.

That's not a Westside thing - That's standard practice in the industry. It's not decided by the distributors, it's imposed by the manufacturers. Often because of slightly different specs / safety requirements in different countries. UK distributors are not going to hold stock of parts that are only used on US models.

If an item is not bought in the UK then it's not under UK legislation. If you buy from the USA and they US company gives you a warranty then if you want it fixed you have to pay to get it sent back to the USA, and to come back to you again. You'll also find that some manufacturer warranties exclude cover if a local voltage transformer has been used with the amp.

 

Same applies for an American customer buying a british amp from the UK.

 

It will get worse in January. If you want a nice big Diezel amp you'll get the best deal from Thomann but you'll need to buy it before then to get proper protection (assuming a deal is done to honour those warranties).

 

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9 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

If you buy from the USA and they US company gives you a warranty then if you want it fixed you have to pay to get it sent back to the USA, and to come back to you again...

It will get worse in January. If you want a nice big Diezel amp you'll get the best deal from Thomann but you'll need to buy it before then to get proper protection (assuming a deal is done to honour those warranties).

Not sure it's going to be an issue with Thomann after January. They already provide paid for returns to Germany - I'm sure they will continue doing so, otherwise they are going to risk Andertons mopping up their UK sales. I think our EU neighbours are very aware of the importance of UK consumers to their export (and tourism!) industries - most of our EU neighbours have individual trade surpluses with the UK and in my experience it's generally a good idea to look after your key customers!

Obviously shipping costs are substantially higher to the US.

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17 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Not sure it's going to be an issue with Thomann after January. They already provide paid for returns to Germany - I'm sure they will continue doing so, otherwise they are going to risk Andertons mopping up their UK sales. I think our EU neighbours are very aware of the importance of UK consumers to their export (and tourism!) industries - most of our EU neighbours have individual trade surpluses with the UK and in my experience it's generally a good idea to look after your key customers!

Obviously shipping costs are substantially higher to the US.

There is no indication yet whether any existing warranties and rights will continue as they are founded in EU law. If a warranty states that the rights of the parties to that warranty are governed by a particular bit of legislation and that legislation has been repealed or amended in such a way to no longer be applicable, then there will be test cases as to whether any removal of rights is retrospective or just from 1st Jan 2021. It won't be the buy spending a grand on an amp that runs those cases as they can't afford it. It will be at a far larger level. Then there will be appeals.

 

Looking after your customers is great, but when looking after them post the thing that can't be named is going to cost a lot more something will have to give. Even the simple action of selling an item will become more expensive due to the extra time needed for customs declarations.

 

Then if there is a problem that requires a refund there will be even more customs hassle to deal with. Thomann would have to supply the customer with proof of refunds so the customer can then seek a refund from HMRC. The handling charge won't be refundable as it's a fee for doing admin and that work was done and the item not working isn't the fault of the postal service used.

Similar paperwork requirements will be for when an item is replaced under warranty to try and stop HMRC charging again when the replacement unit lands. Thomann will likely have to provide the evidence to help the customer as HMRC generally don't accept thing generated by us little people.

 

All of that eats into the margins. Wouldn't surprise me to see different prices for UK -v- EU to cover the extra. Or depending on what trade deal (if any) maybe even requiring the customer to pay shipping on returns irrespective of fault - all properly announced before purchase of course. 

 

From January onwards there will be people looking to return things just as they do now and then possibly finding out that the protections they enjoyed this year are no longer in place.

 

It will all come down to how much business Thomann does with UK buyers. If it's a large amount compared to the EU nations then they will find a way to minimise the issues. If on the other hand it's a smaller amount than the extra overheads needed to deal with it, then I can see limits put in place. Such as no sales of items under £300 to the UK as there isn't enough of a margin in cheaper items to deal with any problems etc.

 

But no matter how well intentioned Thomann is, they can't do anything about the requirements of the UK and German customs services. That's all unavoidable additional expense.

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Posted (edited)

Andertons it is then! 😊

@fretmeister - oooh just had a positive thought: neither the UK or EU currently has a trade deal with the USA, however we are currently in the process of negotiating one with the US (as well as the EU). If / when that happens there's a distinct possibility that imports to the UK from the US will be cheaper than they are now - and let's face in terms of bass gear a fair bit more kit is made in the US than the EU that we import over here to the UK.

Edited by Al Krow
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41 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Andertons it is then! 😊

@fretmeister - oooh just had a positive thought: neither the UK or EU currently has a trade deal with the USA, however we are currently in the process of negotiating one with the US (as well as the EU). If / when that happens there's a distinct possibility that imports to the UK from the US will be cheaper than they are now - and let's face in terms of bass gear a fair bit more kit is made in the US than the EU that we import over here to the UK.

I love that idea.... although I've just looked at my rig.

Italian, Finnish, Japanese amps. British cabs. Australian, Japanese, Dutch, British, Finnish pedals (and 3 USA ones).

The yanks will have to up their game! :D 

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36 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

I love that idea.... although I've just looked at my rig.

Italian, Finnish, Japanese amps. British cabs. Australian, Japanese, Dutch, British, Finnish pedals (and 3 USA ones).

The yanks will have to up their game! :D 

Worth checking where things are actually made/built. A lot of companies specify and design, but outsource the manufacture, usually to low wage economies. My PJB cabs (you could be forgiven for thinking they're a British company - Phil Jones is Welsh) were made in China, for example. At least my amps (Aguilar and Carvin) were actually made in the US. 

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9 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

Worth checking where things are actually made/built. A lot of companies specify and design, but outsource the manufacture, usually to low wage economies. My PJB cabs (you could be forgiven for thinking they're a British company - Phil Jones is Welsh) were made in China, for example. At least my amps (Aguilar and Carvin) were actually made in the US. 

I tend to view origin as the country they avoid their tax in!

;) 

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1 hour ago, Dan Dare said:

At least my amps (Aguilar and Carvin) were actually made in the US. 

For the most part, maybe. 'Made in USA' these days is mainly a euphemism for 'Assembled in USA from parts that came from Asia'. As an example of how weird things have become, one of the main sources of winter clothing, especially that made for winter sports like skiing and snowboarding, is Vietnam.

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3 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Andertons it is then! 😊

@fretmeister - oooh just had a positive thought: neither the UK or EU currently has a trade deal with the USA, however we are currently in the process of negotiating one with the US (as well as the EU). If / when that happens there's a distinct possibility that imports to the UK from the US will be cheaper than they are now - and let's face in terms of bass gear a fair bit more kit is made in the US than the EU that we import over here to the UK.

Possible, yes. But how likely do we think it is? I wouldn't bank on it.

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