On the BBC today: Live music circuit 'risks collapse within weeks'

[Dankology]

1 hour ago, ambient said:

There’s a friend of mine organises a weekly jazz club. He’s not booking anyone until next year, he’s not expecting the venue to be allowed to hold events until then

People are making a lot of money from what’s going on, I suspect there are property developers rubbing their hands together with glee, at the thought of the various properties they’ll be able to get their hands on at a knockdown price.

This: exactly this.

The vultures are always circling and once our small venues are gone they won't be coming back. Certainly not in their original, unique, characterful buildings.

[fleabag]

1 hour ago, ambient said:

property developers rubbing their hands together with glee, at the thought of the various properties they’ll be able to get their hands on at a LOckdown price.

Sorted 

 

[dave_bass5]

37 minutes ago, Jonesy said:

Trying to see a bright side out of all this - if the bigger gigs aren't allowed to go ahead, do you think it might give a boost to the local music scene with people getting their fix seeing unsigned or more cover bands? Or maybe we'll get a chance to see bigger bands playing smaller venues? If those venues are still around that is...... 

Could be boom time for tribute bands. 

Edited May 8, 2020 by dave_bass5

[FinnDave]

3 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Could be boom time for tribune bands. 

Like 'Hark, the Herald Tribune'?

[dave_bass5]

16 minutes ago, FinnDave said:

Like 'Hark, the Herald Tribune'?

Oops, will fix it now. That what happens when i type and drink at the same tomb....😏

[FinnDave]

Just now, dave_bass5 said:

Oops, will fix it now. That what happens when i type and drink at the same tomb....😏

Yeah, takes practice to get used to that!

[ambient]

35 minutes ago, Jonesy said:

Trying to see a bright side out of all this - if the bigger gigs aren't allowed to go ahead, do you think it might give a boost to the local music scene with people getting their fix seeing unsigned or more cover bands? Or maybe we'll get a chance to see bigger bands playing smaller venues? If those venues are still around that is...... 

It doesn’t really make much difference, social distancing will apply to all venues. A place that usually holds 100 people might only be allowed to admit 30, allowing for space around the audience members, toilets, getting served at the bar etc. If they’ve only got a third of the takings, would they bother, or change and do something else?

[FinnDave]

Even if we could only have 30 or so at our gigs (and that just wouldn't work financially) they would all be crushed around the stage - very hard to imagine everyone (or anyone) maintaining social distance at a gig.

[dave_bass5]

12 minutes ago, FinnDave said:

Yeah, takes practice to get used to that!

I’m going to spend the weekend practising 🍻

[Maude]

I've heard from couple of landlords of small pubs that have said there's no point in opening up with social distancing. They pretty much lose money from Sunday to Thursday but make enough on a Friday and Saturday when it's rammed full of drinkers to make it all worthwhile. If they can't allow many people in at a time then they effectively lose the weekend boost to takings and just have seven days of running at a loss. 

Another thing with venues and social distancing is that even if it was viable to run with only 30%? of punters in, once those punters are drunk does anyone really think they'll give a poo about distancing? Sadly I just can't see it. 

Reference the online gig, I enjoy playing bass but I thrive on the energy of an audience at a gig. That energy is a two way thing which won't translate through a screen There's no better feeling than an audience dancing a couple of feet in front of you to your music. 

I'm making myself miserable now so I'll shut up. 🙂

[jimmyb625]

1 hour ago, ambient said:

It doesn’t really make much difference, social distancing will apply to all venues. A place that usually holds 100 people might only be allowed to admit 30, allowing for space around the audience members, toilets, getting served at the bar etc. If they’ve only got a third of the takings, would they bother, or change and do something else?

Our little theatre seats 100. If we had to go by the 2m social distancing requirements, I'd estimate we could have 10 in there. It wouldn't cover the production cost (licence is around £70 minimum per performance, although it varies greatly).

[ambient]

15 minutes ago, jimmyb625 said:

Our little theatre seats 100. If we had to go by the 2m social distancing requirements, I'd estimate we could have 10 in there. It wouldn't cover the production cost (licence is around £70 minimum per performance, although it varies greatly).

As few as that? That’s quite a shock, my figure was just a guess. It’s affecting pretty much everything I love; theatre, museums, concerts. All these places have been struggling for years anyway, thanks to cuts in arts funding. I think this will very sadly be the end for many of them.

[Ricky 4000]

Another thing is all the 'legals' if every covers band has to try and make a few bob from 'patrons' on the internet:

https://www.openmicuk.co.uk/advice/do-you-need-a-licence-to-do-cover-songs/

Not the same as doing your set on a Saturday night down the Fox & Filofax, is it... 😬

[casapete]

7 hours ago, jimmyb625 said:

Our little theatre seats 100. If we had to go by the 2m social distancing requirements, I'd estimate we could have 10 in there. It wouldn't cover the production cost (licence is around £70 minimum per performance, although it varies greatly).

We play theatres all over the UK, including smaller ones. Even with the larger venues we do, the idea of social distancing in a seated auditorium is pretty much impossible, both practically and economically. Say every other seat only could be sold ( and that probably still wouldn’t allow enough distance between punters ), we couldn’t make playing many venues worthwhile at 50% of their capacity. Likewise, how would long rows of seating work? We know from experience that only after a few songs into our first set some people need the loo ( or maybe a smoke?) and squeeze past people in their row. Same goes for cinemas too of course. Already we have lost a couple of our regular venues for good, and I especially have fears for the smaller theatres in the longer term who need well supported gigs to survive. 

[BigRedX]

8 hours ago, Ricky 4000 said:

Another thing is all the 'legals' if every covers band has to try and make a few bob from 'patrons' on the internet:

https://www.openmicuk.co.uk/advice/do-you-need-a-licence-to-do-cover-songs/

Not the same as doing your set on a Saturday night down the Fox & Filofax, is it... 😬

A slightly better time for originals bands then. Time for everyone to hone their songwriting skills.

[ambient]

38 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

A slightly better time for originals bands then. Time for everyone to hone their songwriting skills.

That’s it, I did say in my post that it was probably more suited to original artists.

Maybe this will be a turning point in music, with people more interested in hearing original music?

There are some incredibly talented people out there; bands, solo artists, songwriters, composers. They’re there, you just need to look for them.

[chris_b]

1 minute ago, ambient said:

Maybe this will be a turning point in music, with people more interested in hearing original music?

If the audiences attending original band gigs are any barometer, that'll be the death of music as a popular medium.

[ambient]

4 minutes ago, chris_b said:

If the audiences attending original band gigs are any barometer, that'll be the death of music as a popular medium.

That’s the thing though, there’s a lot less effort required to ‘attend’ a streamed event.

It’s something I’ve noticed on social media recently, friends of mine are doing weekly streamed performances, and people are watching.

I’ve had more sales via Bandcamp recently, and two new subscribers in the last fortnight. That’s not based on any streamed events of mine; I haven’t done any, but I have been sharing a lot of new stuff that I’ve been recording. Bandcamp have had two days recently where they’ve waived their fees, I believe their website came close to crashing on a couple of occasions.

It’s just a thought based on what I’m seeing people are doing.

[Barking Spiders]

The live music circuit has been on its knees for quite some time anyway. In Cheltenham , fr'instance, I know of around a dozen venues in the town centre that disappeared before covid came along.  As others have said, how would any pub be able to maintain 2m between punters?  People have to accept that in the 'new normal' a lot of industries will either no longer exist or be in much-reduced formats. This includes pubs and brewing. The British Beer and Pub Association has recently said that without government support 40% of pubs could be gone by september.

[Jonesy]

11 hours ago, ambient said:

It doesn’t really make much difference, social distancing will apply to all venues. A place that usually holds 100 people might only be allowed to admit 30, allowing for space around the audience members, toilets, getting served at the bar etc. If they’ve only got a third of the takings, would they bother, or change and do something else?

I think social distancing rules will still apply at first, but maybe they'll be lifted in stages? Eg - we might be looking at something like stadium or arena events coming back in late 2021, events up to 3000 capacity early 2021, 1000 or less in late 2020 and 500 or less at the end of the summer? 

If (and its an optimistic if) something like that happens then maybe we'll see local music pick back up. That's my hope anyway as I'm itching to see bands again and if there's double figures in a crowd where I'm playing I'm happy! 😂

The govt will want to get the economy up and running as soon as possible which means (in bigger cities at least) getting public transport up and running. The idea of social distancing on public transport is a non starter so you'd think they'll relax the current rules for events of a certain size? 

[Woodinblack]

45 minutes ago, ambient said:

That’s it, I did say in my post that it was probably more suited to original artists.

I would say only suited to original artists.

45 minutes ago, ambient said:

Maybe this will be a turning point in music, with people more interested in hearing original music?

There are some incredibly talented people out there; bands, solo artists, songwriters, composers. They’re there, you just need to look for them.

There are indeed, but in the large part, a lot of people want to listen to stuff they already know.  I know a few groups that have originals and covers, and one group that started as an originals group, but also go out under a different name as a covers group. As the covers group they are booked up for all the big local events.

41 minutes ago, chris_b said:

If the audiences attending original band gigs are any barometer, that'll be the death of music as a popular medium.

sadly, this.

Without established bands and cover bands to keep venues going I don't see there will be enough venue staying open to be there for original artists to be able to make a living.

[Maude]

2 hours ago, casapete said:

We play theatres all over the UK, including smaller ones. Even with the larger venues we do, the idea of social distancing in a seated auditorium is pretty much impossible, both practically and economically. Say every other seat only could be sold ( and that probably still wouldn’t allow enough distance between punters ), we couldn’t make playing many venues worthwhile at 50% of their capacity. Likewise, how would long rows of seating work? We know from experience that only after a few songs into our first set some people need the loo ( or maybe a smoke?) and squeeze past people in their row. Same goes for cinemas too of course. Already we have lost a couple of our regular venues for good, and I especially have fears for the smaller theatres in the longer term who need well supported gigs to survive. 

I think every other seat is optimistic, if 6' needs to be left then that's certainly 2, possibly 3 seats that need to be left. The the entire row behind, more likely two to get the 6' clearance. Imagine sitting in a theatre a not having anyone within a 6' radius of you, and then all the other people the same, that's a massive percentage of empty seats. 

Then like you say, people need to get up and do whatever it is they seem to have to do ten minutes into the performance and squeeze past everyone else in the row. 

[Bassfinger]

21 hours ago, chris_b said:

It is worrying for the tens of thousands of people who make their living from live music and music venues. 

Would they rather people died instead?  The whole country is in crisis and no industry or commerce remains unaffected.  What makes them such a special case?  Christ, my industry has been kicked in the nuts worldwide.

They need to grow some stones.  They're in the same boat as tens of millions of others.  When the opportunity allows they'll get back to it, or they'll find something else and that's the reality. 

I'll tell you one thing - for all the wailing and gnashing of teeth you can bet most of them will continue to live their lives buying unnecessary fripperies on credit, leaving them over exposed to such crises again in the future.  For all their complaining most of them won't have learned a thing from it when it's over.

 

 

 

[Lozz196]

1 hour ago, chris_b said:

If the audiences attending original band gigs are any barometer, that'll be the death of music as a popular medium.

Not necessarily, having played originals for the last 6 years most of the gigs we were doing had good audiences. Mainly down to good promoters putting on the right bands and actually promoting I think, but certainly on the punk/Oi scene people would travel fair distances to see bands. I recall a gig in Wigan last year, the first 5 people I spoke to had come from Germany for the gig.

[ambient]

32 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

I would say only suited to original artists.

There are indeed, but in the large part, a lot of people want to listen to stuff they already know.  I know a few groups that have originals and covers, and one group that started as an originals group, but also go out under a different name as a covers group. As the covers group they are booked up for all the big local events.

sadly, this.

Without established bands and cover bands to keep venues going I don't see there will be enough venue staying open to be there for original artists to be able to make a living.

Hence my use of the word ‘maybe’. I remain optimistic though, that as with other things, this could be a turning point. There’s a meme I’ve seen shared quite a bit, pointing out that for many, many people, it’s music and art that have helped them through the last few months. Sales of books have soared too. It would be nice to think that now people have discovered there’s more to life than endlessly buying tat that they don’t need, and the simple pleasure in a walk in the park, or sitting reading a book, whilst listening to music?