Amps, what do we need?

[NancyJohnson]

Morning C-19 buddies.
Over the years I've had so many amps I've lost count.  From those early days of no name things (that smelt like a cross between a militar establishment and Scalextric when they got hot), through Carlsboro, Orange, a Selmer TnB 50, Ashdown, SWR, Trace, right through to my current Darkglass AO900.  Big rigs, small rigs and all (at the time) perfectly fit for purpose.

Now then. 

You know, every amplification set up I've had is missing two crucial things.  Every single amplifier.  I had a brief discussion with one of the guys at Darkglass about this and he did say that the company hadn't actually given any thought to these, but he thought they were decent suggestions, so who knows? 

1)  A series power output on the amp, 240v and/or 9v, so you don't need an additional power supply to run an effects board.  Any time I've used a bit of outboard shaping (Sansamp/dUg/tuner), I've tended to simply dial in my tone and go the whole gig with that (and yes, I do appreciate people do change their tone song to song); the unit then sits on top of my amp out of harms way rather than being trodden on my overenthusiastic singers.  I owned an old effects board until about a year ago, that was powered initially by a daisychained 9v loom, then a single Speakon power cable.

2) Given the size of tuners nowadays, how about a decent, always on, onboard tuner?  I've not opened up the AO900 (or any of my other amps) so I'm unaware of what's inside or how full the case is, but given the size of headstock tuners or even the those little Korg Pitchblack things, would it be easyish to incorporate a LED display into the top of the head and have stompbox innards elsewhere? 

That's it...

[chris_b]

26 minutes ago, NancyJohnson said:

Morning C-19 buddies.
Over the years I've had so many amps I've lost count.  From those early days of no name things (that smelt like a cross between a militar establishment and Scalextric when they got hot), through Carlsboro, Orange, a Selmer TnB 50, Ashdown, SWR, Trace, right through to my current Darkglass AO900.  Big rigs, small rigs and all (at the time) perfectly fit for purpose.

Now then. 

You know, every amplification set up I've had is missing two crucial things.  Every single amplifier.  I had a brief discussion with one of the guys at Darkglass about this and he did say that the company hadn't actually given any thought to these, but he thought they were decent suggestions, so who knows? 

1)  A series power output on the amp, 240v and/or 9v, so you don't need an additional power supply to run an effects board.  Any time I've used a bit of outboard shaping (Sansamp/dUg/tuner), I've tended to simply dial in my tone and go the whole gig with that (and yes, I do appreciate people do change their tone song to song); the unit then sits on top of my amp out of harms way rather than being trodden on my overenthusiastic singers.  I owned an old effects board until about a year ago, that was powered initially by a daisychained 9v loom, then a single Speakon power cable.

2) Given the size of tuners nowadays, how about a decent, always on, onboard tuner?  I've not opened up the AO900 (or any of my other amps) so I'm unaware of what's inside or how full the case is, but given the size of headstock tuners or even the those little Korg Pitchblack things, would it be easyish to incorporate a LED display into the top of the head and have stompbox innards elsewhere? 

That's it...

Two good points. My vote would go for the incorporated pedal power supply. I had a tuner on my TC amp which was good but IMO a tuner is better situated in front of you. I prefer to tune facing the audience, rather than fiddling about with my back to them.

[ezbass]

Didn’t EBS do a phantom power feature from their heads to their pedals? I wonder if many folks actually used it?

[fretmeister]

I've wondered about the built in tuner too.

I would quite like to upgrade my M900 V1 to the V2 because of the built in compressor. But as I'd still have to take a tuner I'm less fussed and it's easy to have a small board with a compressor on it as well.

But if the V3, if / when it comes had a tuner and a compressor then I wouldn't need to take anything else for 95% of things I do.

 

I'm not fussed about having the tuner display on the floor. It only takes a few seconds of facing backwards anyway. I'd rather have the stage clear of anything if I didn't need any other effects at all.

 

The power outlet would also be great. Then I could just pop my wireless on top and have it powered by the amp.

 

Maybe Darkglass and other amp makers should set up an IdeaScale page so we can vote on this stuff. Crowd Sourced market research has been a big thing for the Helix and has helped the devs pick the stuff that a lot of punters want.

[chris_b]

The US versions of my Ampeg SVT3 had a mains power outlet for powering addition gear. That plug was blanked off on my UK amp. I just assumed it didn't meet our regs in some way.

[ikay]

The TC Electronic RH750 head has a built in tuner but no aux power supply.

https://www.tcelectronic.com/Categories/Tcelectronic/Bass/Head-Amplifiers/RH750/p/P0CIV#googtrans(en|en)

[fretmeister]

22 minutes ago, ikay said:

The TC Electronic RH750 head has a built in tuner but no aux power supply.

https://www.tcelectronic.com/Categories/Tcelectronic/Bass/Head-Amplifiers/RH750/p/P0CIV#googtrans(en|en)

I had one of those.

Wasn't a fan of the tone really, but also the fan noise was distracting - I often play with just woodwind instruments and the fan is noticeable to the audience on those.

When it came out I thought it might be the ultimate amp for me - but, alas!

[Bankai]

Peavey have just brought out a new guitar head which for the first time features a built-in isolated power out for powering various effects pedals. It’s a feature that has been very well received so we may see it crop up on other peavey models in future.

Edited May 4, 2020 by Bankai

[BigRedX]

Surely the only bassists who need amps are those who play with no PA support?

In over 40 years, less than 1% of of the gigs I have played have required my bass rig to be the sole or main source from which the audience hears my bass guitar. These days I just use my Line6 Helix straight into the PA with an FRFR cab for those gigs where the foldback isn't chunky enough to deliver a decent bass sound.

[Jus Lukin]

-

Edited March 4, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[fretmeister]

11 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

Surely the only bassists who need amps are those who play with no PA support?

In over 40 years, less than 1% of of the gigs I have played have required my bass rig to be the sole or main source from which the audience hears my bass guitar. These days I just use my Line6 Helix straight into the PA with an FRFR cab for those gigs where the foldback isn't chunky enough to deliver a decent bass sound.

I think your experience is a minority one.

I've been gigging for about 30 years and I reckon I've done about 5 gigs in that time where I could have done without an amp.

[Merton]

GR Bass do both:

https://www.grbass.com/amps/dual-800/

[BigRedX]

9 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

I think your experience is a minority one.

I've been gigging for about 30 years and I reckon I've done about 5 gigs in that time where I could have done without an amp.

I think it depends what/where you play. My 40+ years of gigging has been nearly all originals and not always at a particularly high level. I've played all over the UK in many different bands doing different kinds of music, but at all, apart from the smallest of venues, the bass has gone through the in-house PA system. Often I'd be asked to turn down my rig to the point where I could hear the bass louder from the monitor on the other side of the stage than I could from my own rig unless I was stood right in front of it. 

OTOH almost all of my (very few comparatively) covers band gigs have relied on me having a decently loud bass rig and PA was vocals only.

However IIRC the OP is strictly and originals band player hence my comments.

[fretmeister]

7 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

I think it depends what/where you play. My 40+ years of gigging has been nearly all originals and not always at a particularly high level. I've played all over the UK in many different bands doing different kinds of music, but at all, apart from the smallest of venues, the bass has gone through the in-house PA system. Often I'd be asked to turn down my rig to the point where I could hear the bass louder from the monitor on the other side of the stage than I could from my own rig unless I was stood right in front of it. 

OTOH almost all of my (very few comparatively) covers band gigs have relied on me having a decently loud bass rig and PA was vocals only.

However IIRC the OP is strictly and originals band player hence my comments.

I've done originals, pub covers, wedding / function stuff. Most genres from metal to jazz.

Even with a semi-pro function band I needed the amp. 

Irrespective of the band / gig situation, often it was only vocal in the PA, or vocal and some drums, mainly to get the snare, kick and hi hat in the monitors.

I think I'd struggle to remember more than 10 shows in 30 years where everything was in the PA.

 

Don't get me wrong - everything in the PA is definitely superior for the audience (and that has to be the main thing, especially if charging them), I just think it uncommon.

I wonder if my view is skewed by age though. What is the experience of the 25 year olds? Modelling and in-ears for weekend warriors is relatively new tech for us veterans, but it's always been there for the younger players.

[NancyJohnson]

1 hour ago, Jus Lukin said:

This is why I like rack systems. My main one is fairly lightweight, has a tuner, Sansamp VT rack which can be clean or amp sim, loads of lightweight power with various routing options and crossover/HPF, and a six-way rack power strip across the back, leaving three slots for effects, PA, a light, or the drummer's fan, etc.!

Rack stuff isn't en vouge at the moment so options are comparitively limited, but the flexibility works for me. Perhaps they'll come back around!

I appreciate the rack set up and it's inhernet adapability - I sold all mine here in favour for something more powerful and considerabkly more lightweight.  I was just tired of lugging a 30lb suitcase around, hence the Darkglass.

[NancyJohnson]

1 hour ago, BigRedX said:

Surely the only bassists who need amps are those who play with no PA support?

In over 40 years, less than 1% of of the gigs I have played have required my bass rig to be the sole or main source from which the audience hears my bass guitar. These days I just use my Line6 Helix straight into the PA with an FRFR cab for those gigs where the foldback isn't chunky enough to deliver a decent bass sound.

From memory, I've done one gig sans amp/rig, a situation enforced due to the headliners deciding they didn't want us lowly support bands using their gear, so I put a Sansamp BDDI through the PA.  I'm sure we'd have been fine if we'd all been on in-ears or if there'd been proper monitors, but there wasn't and it was awful.  Horrific really.

 

[chris_b]

On 95% of my gigs I get no FOH.

My objective on a gig is that the stage sound is constant and my sound is exactly the same. IMO that is best achieved by bringing my own gear. So I'll always take my rig. If I don't use it that's fine, but I have been promised back lines and found inadequate or broken amps and once a mains cable with no amp on the other end of it! I have also had blank stares when I asked where the monitor was, and monitors that sounded more like a black and decker drill.

Being self sufficient in the sound department is the best advice I can give.

[Frank Blank]

1 hour ago, fretmeister said:

I think your experience is a minority one.

I've been gigging for about 30 years and I reckon I've done about 5 gigs in that time where I could have done without an amp.

I've been gigging for just a shade over 40 years and every single gig I've ever done could have been done with the rig @BigRedX uses. Likewise I have a QSC FRFR speaker and a HX Stomp, most gigs I just use the Stomp direct to the PA unless the monitoring isn't up to much when I'll go Bass > Stomp > QSC and take a line to the desk from the back of the QSC. For gigs without a PA the QSC is fine as backline.

[fretmeister]

1 hour ago, Frank Blank said:

I've been gigging for just a shade over 40 years and every single gig I've ever done could have been done with the rig @BigRedX uses. Likewise I have a QSC FRFR speaker and a HX Stomp, most gigs I just use the Stomp direct to the PA unless the monitoring isn't up to much when I'll go Bass > Stomp > QSC and take a line to the desk from the back of the QSC. For gigs without a PA the QSC is fine as backline.

I agree that most "could be done" that way - but so many PA systems are not up to the task.

[la bam]

If an amp had a built in tuner, and maybe a one knob compressor, itd be a winner in my book.

[Cuzzie]

6 hours ago, NancyJohnson said:

Morning C-19 buddies.
Over the years I've had so many amps I've lost count.  From those early days of no name things (that smelt like a cross between a militar establishment and Scalextric when they got hot), through Carlsboro, Orange, a Selmer TnB 50, Ashdown, SWR, Trace, right through to my current Darkglass AO900.  Big rigs, small rigs and all (at the time) perfectly fit for purpose.

Now then. 

You know, every amplification set up I've had is missing two crucial things.  Every single amplifier.  I had a brief discussion with one of the guys at Darkglass about this and he did say that the company hadn't actually given any thought to these, but he thought they were decent suggestions, so who knows? 

1)  A series power output on the amp, 240v and/or 9v, so you don't need an additional power supply to run an effects board.  Any time I've used a bit of outboard shaping (Sansamp/dUg/tuner), I've tended to simply dial in my tone and go the whole gig with that (and yes, I do appreciate people do change their tone song to song); the unit then sits on top of my amp out of harms way rather than being trodden on my overenthusiastic singers.  I owned an old effects board until about a year ago, that was powered initially by a daisychained 9v loom, then a single Speakon power cable.

2) Given the size of tuners nowadays, how about a decent, always on, onboard tuner?  I've not opened up the AO900 (or any of my other amps) so I'm unaware of what's inside or how full the case is, but given the size of headstock tuners or even the those little Korg Pitchblack things, would it be easyish to incorporate a LED display into the top of the head and have stompbox innards elsewhere? 

That's it...

Depends how many pedals you run.

If running an amp then a power socket will be in easy reach of the amp, and so a dUg pedal (if that is all you take) plugged in with its own supply, or a daisy chain off a 1 spot plug should suffice and be no issues.

Personally I have a rack for the head and tuner - Gator wheelie case - easy to transport.

So far as innards - the DG is pretty packed - it’s a fine line between fans or space for cooling, but also add in a tuner it takes up space for the DG would be higher/deeper/wider and if you pump a power supply people may complain of weight - I dunno

Trolley Dolly Rack back and with an amp like the DG - all pedals could prob fit in the bag, stuck/Velcro’s down and just the amp and rack tuner out front 

[Lozz196]

In theory virtually all of the gigs I did with my last band could have been done without an amp, as they were almost all going FOH, and all were done with my eq/sound coming from a preamp pedal.That said I’m not a fan of too much in the monitors, other than vocals, I prefer the sound of the instruments behind me, so ampage/cabbage for me. As such both features mentioned would have been useful in the times I used my own amp head.

Edited May 4, 2020 by Lozz196

[Mudpup]

Built in wireless with a rechargeable receiver, bluetooth tuner with a rechargeable floor display and i'm sorted ta 

The less chance of me tripping over something the better and it isolates me from mains issues.

🙂

 

[itu]

This seems to be the amp that has all the most important things, like

- preamp with eq on/off, and a fully adjustable parametric (for notch)

- power amp with plenty of oomph, no, plain power to 8 / 4 / 2 / -5 ohm for maximum loudness (oh dear...)

- chromatic tuner for the 13-string subcontrapiccolo monster

- flat frequency responce 15 Hz - 22 kHz

- wireless transmitter and receiver, no latency (naturally)

- lightweight... tube amp! (yes, I had to)

- DI out including IR etc.

- mic stand (like guitarists... maybe not)

- some kind of an emulator to change the bass sound with a flick of a switch (fretless, double bass, SR, J, P...)

- basic effects (OD, fuzz, envelope, chorus, octaver, comp, etc.), and some extra

- three pots for simplicity

- £300

Edited May 4, 2020 by itu
Forgot the pots.

[fretmeister]

1 hour ago, Mudpup said:

Built in wireless with a rechargeable receiver, bluetooth tuner with a rechargeable floor display and i'm sorted ta 

The less chance of me tripping over something the better and it isolates me from mains issues.

🙂

 

Built in wireless will never happen.

Too expensive to deal with different countries legal frequency ranges when the main purpose of the product is not as a wireless.

There was a lot of people suggesting it for the Helix and the L6 developers took their time to explain why it wouldn't work and the unit price would go up massively for something that many people just didn't want or had units they preferred for their location.