T-Bay Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 1 minute ago, ClassicVibes said: Gallon Drunk? Bloody hell! I think you are right! How did you know that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClassicVibes Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 I might have seen them on that tour... the name definitely rings a bell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bay Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, ClassicVibes said: I might have seen them on that tour... the name definitely rings a bell. Just been on YouTube and that is them all right. Thanks for that, it’s bugged me for years. At the time they were ‘the band you had to see’ so such a lacklustre performance really stood out. Therapy? And silverfish were amazing so still a great night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Blank Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 1 hour ago, MacDaddy said: I've got to take issue with the use of the word 'genius', with regards to popular music. True genius in music is exemplified by Bach, Mozart, and many of the great composers. There are many in popular (and not so popular) music who are extremely talented, but 'genius'? No. Several Jazz geniuses are, quite rightly. looking askance at this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dankology Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 3 hours ago, hooky_lowdown said: Underrated: Scarce (reminds me of Pixies with female bassist) and Fortune Drive. Excellent call! I thought I was the only one who remembered them... Funnily enough I found an old mini-album/maxi-single of theirs that I'd entirely forgotten about in a box last week. I suppose you could argue the semantics of "underrated" vs "forgotten about/ignored" if you were being picky. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stub Mandrel Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 2 hours ago, ubit said: The most over rated band I have ever seen live was Sigue Sigue Sputnik. They were huge at the time and when we saw them they were terrible. It became clear that Tony James was the only real musician in the band and all the others had been recruited for their image rather than musical prowess They were not tight at all, making mistakes all over the place. It was actually embarrassing to watch. Maybe there was some under lying reason, drugs perhaps but they were rank rotten. Err... isn't that a bit like saying Bros were over-rated as serious songwriters? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubit Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, Stub Mandrel said: Err... isn't that a bit like saying Bros were over-rated as serious songwriters? 1 minute ago, Stub Mandrel said: They were huge at the time Edited April 30, 2020 by ubit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDaddy Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 5 minutes ago, Frank Blank said: Several Jazz geniuses are, quite rightly. looking askance at this. Extremely talented musicians no doubt, but compared to Beethoven? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubit Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, MacDaddy said: Extremely talented musicians no doubt, but compared to Beethoven? genius Person who has exceptional intellectual ability, creativity, or originality This is subjective. You clearly don't consider anyone musical who is not a classical composer to be such but others will offer this description to someone who excells in their particular field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 1 hour ago, MacDaddy said: I've got to take issue with the use of the word 'genius', with regards to popular music. True genius in music is exemplified by Bach, Mozart, and many of the great composers. There are many in popular (and not so popular) music who are extremely talented, but 'genius'? No. Perhaps this is for another thread... It could be argued that term 'genius' is often confused with 'virtuoso'? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Blank Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 Just now, MacDaddy said: Extremely talented musicians no doubt, but compared to Beethoven? Yes, Duke Ellington is often compared with Beethoven, as a great composer and Jazz musicians are often composing as they play in response to the players around them. If we are talking geniuses in a compositional sense I'd rate the great Jazz musicians way above classical composers, it's all very well sitting at a piano composing at your own speed, able to try parts over and over and rewrite notes, you only get one shot improvising in Jazz. I'd stand by Miles Davis being a bigger genius than Beethoven. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDaddy Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 1 minute ago, ubit said: genius Person who has exceptional intellectual ability, creativity, or originality This is subjective. You clearly don't consider anyone musical who is not a classical composer to be such but others will offer this description to someone who excells in their particular field. Selling lots of records is excelling in the field of popular music, IMO it does not make the person who does a genius. As I said, perhaps for another thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubit Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Frank Blank said: you only get one shot improvising in Jazz. I'd stand by Miles Davis being a bigger genius than Beethoven. You could describe anyone who was really good at jamming to be included in this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Blank Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 1 minute ago, MacDaddy said: Selling lots of records is excelling in the field of popular music, IMO it does not make the person who does a genius. As I said, perhaps for another thread. Surely it makes them a genius at selling records? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubit Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 1 minute ago, MacDaddy said: IMO it does not make the person who does a genius. No, your idea of a genius is someone who has been talked about for a couple of hundred years and covered by many other artists. Who knows what people will think of artists now in a couple of hundred years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamg67 Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 2 hours ago, MacDaddy said: I've got to take issue with the use of the word 'genius', with regards to popular music. True genius in music is exemplified by Bach, Mozart, and many of the great composers. There are many in popular (and not so popular) music who are extremely talented, but 'genius'? No. Perhaps this is for another thread... Good luck with that one whichever thread it's in. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JottoSW1 Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 1 hour ago, sykilz said: I must be easily pleased, the only time I've been really underwhelmed by a band ( that I wanted to see, I've seen my fair share of small venue sh*te) live was Third Eye Blind a few years back. They were well past their peak but I loved the first 3/4 albums, but live they didn't appear to know the audience was there or care. Shame. Underrated is a tough one because some bands just don't resonate with 'the masses' for some reason so don't get the commercial success I'd thought they deserved, two of my favourite rock acts ever are King's X and Tesla, both of whom could be considered underrated because I think they are way better, within their genre, than many many bands who did a lot better financially. Kings Cross were bloody good, sounds like managerial problems and religious strife may have done for them. Must check out some Tesla. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Blank Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 (edited) ...anyway, back on topic. Overrated - dependent on individual likes/dislikes which rarely include any kind of objective analysis. Underrated - ditto. I don't get what the fuss is about The Beatles, however I see how influential and important they are yet none of their output speaks to me in any meaningful way, although I must admit I do like Being for the Benefit of Mr. Kite! But that's about it. I'd rather listen to one Sparks track than anything by the Beatles. I'm not sure I really understand if the word overrated can be used as an objective term, I don't really like Bros but I think I understand their mass appeal, if there had been hundreds of screaming teenagers at a Public Image Ltd gig then I would have been confused. I suppose Adam and the Ants made a transition worth mentioning. I love the first A&TA album, Dirk Wears White Sox, it's one of my favourite albums but, gradually over the ensuing years their output became more accessible and gained broad appeal until they were huge and having number one hits. Despite me abandoning the Ant Ship around the release of Kings Of The Wild Frontier I still followed their progress with interest and still attended (albeit less frequently) their gigs right up until the Prince Charming era. I didn't personally like their direction but also I didn't start dissing them because they had become something different. I'm rambling, so much for on/off topic. Anyway... Kraftwerk are (imho) geniuses of a scale larger than Miles Davis and Beethoven put together, utter nonsense of course but there it is nonetheless. Edited April 30, 2020 by Frank Blank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 12 minutes ago, JottoSW1 said: Kings Cross were bloody good, sounds like managerial problems and religious strife may have done for them. Must check out some Tesla. I'm sure that the managerial problems didn't help, but I don't think that religious strife was a big factor as it only really alienated the Christian rock market, which was hardly crucial to them. I think that their big problem was that they were just too original, which made them difficult to market them successfully. It was the 'if you knew, you knew' factor that made them a cult favourite, but didn't make it easy for them to appeal to a mass market...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubit Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 Prince wasn't a classical composer but I would challenge anyone who said he wasn't a genius! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClassicVibes Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 (edited) I will say, Ride never really got the credit they deserved. Edited April 30, 2020 by ClassicVibes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooky_lowdown Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Dankology said: Excellent call! I thought I was the only one who remembered them... Funnily enough I found an old mini-album/maxi-single of theirs that I'd entirely forgotten about in a box last week. I suppose you could argue the semantics of "underrated" vs "forgotten about/ignored" if you were being picky. The bassist Joyce does guitar lessons these days (among other things), she's teaching my niece. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooky_lowdown Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 5 minutes ago, ClassicVibes said: I will say, Ride never really got the credit they deserved. Very true. Saw Ride a few times in the 90s, then watched Andy Bell play with Hurricane #1 and Oasis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClassicVibes Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 Another unappreciated band, Quicksand. They helped restart the 90s punk/hardcore scenes but were given zero credit for it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectoremg Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 4 hours ago, MacDaddy said: Overrated: Nirvana. Great drummer & producers, from the second album, but sadly overrated and mythologised. It seems to be the thing to knock Nirvana now. I think they only made one good album, but what an album! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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