AndyBass Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 (edited) My amp having recently breathed its last, I’ve seen a few Ampeg PF500s and an Svt450 knocking about which would pair with my cab and have the output I need. But are they good for db, or are they “growly” and colour the sound too much? Any views welcome!! Edited April 12, 2020 by AndyBass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Obvious question - what pickup system(s) are you using? IME any amp/head that's going to work well with DB and a piezo pickup will offer input impedance of greater than 1M Ω and the specs won't be slow to let you know this. Those Ampegs don't mention input impedance in their specs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBass Posted April 11, 2020 Author Share Posted April 11, 2020 I vary, Fonokraft piezos or Schaller or Krivo mags. I’ve never understood impedance stuff very well and have only just to to grips with output impedance and matching cabs. I am, to quote Skynyrd, a simple kind of man. I’m assuming using a preamp (I always use a K&K) addresses this issue as I’ve often just plugged into whatever’s available in studios/at gigs and it’s never been an issue? I may just have been lucky though! Certainly an interesting point on the ampegs though - no mention anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Just buy an Fdeck pedal (or clone), which will impedance match and - very usefully - give you control over feedback and low end rumble. Put that between your DB and any amp and hey presto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrixn1 Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 20 hours ago, AndyBass said: are they “growly” and colour the sound too much? Do you want a growly, coloured sound? If you're not sure, you know an SVT 450 weighs 20kg? For me at least, the only way I'm hauling 20kg amp around is if that's the only possible way to get a tone I know for sure that I absolutely love. Sounds like you sometimes play on shared/other people's gear. Were there any amps you've encountered that you particularly liked/disliked? If you're regularly using gear which isn't your own, a preamp pedal might be better than an amp, as it's a more portable way to get "your sound" wherever you go. For example, SansAmp VT Bass DI was specifically designed to give the character of different Ampegs. If you take the preamp pedal route, then perhaps your own amp head should be as clean/uncoloured as possible (since "your sound" now comes from the pedal). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 3 hours ago, AndyBass said: I’ve never understood impedance stuff very well and have only just to to grips with output impedance and matching cabs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBass Posted April 11, 2020 Author Share Posted April 11, 2020 Not really after growliness on double bass, just the old “my bass but louder” chestnut. Weight’s not really a factor, everywhere I’d go would be in a van and once there it’s only a few minutes of heft to the stage. Saves a trip to the gym 😀 I use my own gear mainly, but that’s a good idea to investigate for occasions when it isn’t practical. I think I need to educate myself a bit more with this stuff because all this talk of fdecks and preamp pedals is alien to me. I’m still in the world of instrument - amp - noise. In the meantime I think I’ll just get another Hartke and keep it simple! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBass Posted April 11, 2020 Author Share Posted April 11, 2020 Just now, Happy Jack said: Yeah, the language on the left is the world I operate in Im afraid! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, AndyBass said: I think I need to educate myself a bit more with this stuff because all this talk of fdecks and preamp pedals is alien to me. The FDeck unit is an amazingly simple but effective piece of kit when using DB (it's called that because the original circuit was designed by a guy called Francis Deck = FDeck). It's as near plug-in-and-forget as anything you're likely to find, and the louder you play the more you'll appreciate it. Are you based near London at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBass Posted April 11, 2020 Author Share Posted April 11, 2020 Hmm...a bit of reading old threads and they do sound interesting. Anything that gets a hotter signal from a piezo and helps counter feedback is a good thing by me. I guess I’ve always been married to my K&K pre as a means of merging signals before the wireless. Would you then run the signal into the fdeck before the amp, I wonder, or ditch the K&K meaning I’d need to rethink my bridge/clicky setup... And no, sadly I’m way up in sunny Sheffield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 The FDeck is a wonderful piece of kit no doubt, but if AndyBass is already using a K&K pre-amp he doesn't need to go and spend any more money on another pre-amp. All K&K preamps have an input impedance of 1MOhm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 You're not really on-board with the whole GAS thing, are you Pete? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 Au contraire, I've just had a quick count up and have at least 31 instruments in the house, not including the guitars owned by my son, amplification, pedals, etc and another build on the way. But I am coming round to the idea that it's usually better to understand the problem and fix it, than to throw money at it and hope it'll go away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 I think the Ampegs would be workable on double bass, though they're going to tend towards being warm rather than hi-fi sounding. Certainly I've found that my PF-50T sounds surprisingly good on my double bass, and has less of that hyped growly sound than my GK, provided that you don't do crazy things with the EQ and keep away from the ultra hi and ultra lo buttons. I think the PF-500 is designed around a similar voicing, but I'm less familiar with the SVT 450. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBass Posted April 12, 2020 Author Share Posted April 12, 2020 Thanks for the input and info everyone. I’ve decided to play it safe and stick with exactly what I had before since one just appeared in the classifieds. Maybe I’ll explore Ampeg another day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimmo91 Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 On 11/04/2020 at 13:51, jrixn1 said: Do you want a growly, coloured sound? If you're not sure, you know an SVT 450 weighs 20kg? For me at least, the only way I'm hauling 20kg amp around is if that's the only possible way to get a tone I know for sure that I absolutely love. Sounds like you sometimes play on shared/other people's gear. Were there any amps you've encountered that you particularly liked/disliked? If you're regularly using gear which isn't your own, a preamp pedal might be better than an amp, as it's a more portable way to get "your sound" wherever you go. For example, SansAmp VT Bass DI was specifically designed to give the character of different Ampegs. If you take the preamp pedal route, then perhaps your own amp head should be as clean/uncoloured as possible (since "your sound" now comes from the pedal). I do exactly this. My set up is a Sansamp Paradriver di Into FOH and then I use in ear monitoring. The great thing about this approach is it's easy, requires no power sockets (pedal powered by phantom power) and always get a consistent sound. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBass Posted April 13, 2020 Author Share Posted April 13, 2020 Coming back to the fdeck point, one thing I’ve often struggled with in the past is a really low output from the piezo. Based on the above I’d have thought this was due to the massively high output impedance of the pickup, but the K&K should be translating that into 3kOhm or something. Which I would have thought should eradicate that issue, yet soundmen over the years have bemoaned the lack of a strong signal into the DI, or I’ve had to crank the amp massively and wrestle feedback to get close to loud enough. Given I need the K&K in the chain to blend the signals, is there anything I could add after the wireless that would help boost the signal or something? Not a pressing question as I got sick of it and got mag pickups anyway, but am tempted back to piezos at the minute. off topic obviously, but while I’ve got you here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrixn1 Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 4 hours ago, AndyBass said: soundmen over the years have bemoaned the lack of a strong signal into the DI, or I’ve had to crank the amp massively and wrestle feedback to get close to loud enough. Given I need the K&K in the chain to blend the signals, is there anything I could add after the wireless that would help boost the signal or something? Ideally, the DI level should be independent of your stage volume. Typically, the preamp gain will affect the DI level, but the master volume should not. What Hartke amp do you have? I know for example the LH500 is "missing" a gain control. In that case a pedal like MXR M133 would help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrixn1 Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 Also, the K&K has internal pots for gain. Check what they are set to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBass Posted April 13, 2020 Author Share Posted April 13, 2020 hi - yeah sorry the two scenarios (low input to DI, low volume through amp) were exclusive of one another, but I assume caused by the same issue. I use the 3500 which has its own gain control. I’ll mess about with the gain on the K&K and see what I can do with that. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBass Posted June 6, 2020 Author Share Posted June 6, 2020 On 11/04/2020 at 09:22, Happy Jack said: Obvious question - what pickup system(s) are you using? IME any amp/head that's going to work well with DB and a piezo pickup will offer input impedance of greater than 1M Ω and the specs won't be slow to let you know this. Those Ampegs don't mention input impedance in their specs. Sorry to resurrect an oldie but in case anyone searches and finds this thread in future, Ampeg have said the pf heads are 1megaohm input impedance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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