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mcnach

Stingray pickup - at the correct spot, passive... definitely Stingray

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2 hours ago, bloke_zero said:

Welcome to my world:IMG_1305.thumb.jpg.426f591630eb721c782547531901403e.jpg

Right, enough people have quoted this picture. Now we need some answers. 😁

Was that a blank body that you've routed from the back? 

It looks lovely. 

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1 hour ago, Maude said:

Was that a blank body that you've routed from the back? 

Yes and no - it was a special Warmoth order that I got 2nd hand from eBay, so the only routing is the front pickup and then electronics cavity routed at the back.

Looks like this:

IMG_1148.thumb.jpg.ba3fd6c4cd6d8e0fbfdf56fc2400ae16.jpg

Thread from when I got it and the previous owner here: 

 

1 hour ago, Maude said:

It looks lovely. 

Thanks!

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Thanks for the link @bloke_zero, it's got my mind working. I've got a nice blocked & bound maple left hand jazz neck and a right handed SX P bass (I'm a righty). Maybe a reverse necked J, P, MM hybrid.

Hmm, P or MM scratchplate? 🤔

A 'Jazzraysion'. 🙂

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On ‎07‎/‎04‎/‎2020 at 15:58, police squad said:

It's very light, very resonant and has a BIG neck. I havent gigged it for a couple of years now but I keep hold of it because it's not really worth selling. It owes me just over 350 quid and I'm hoping that I'll find a gig that needs a Glam-rock bass

I was just going to say that would go down great for use in my Glam Rock band......currently use a Mikey Way Mustang has it has a similar finish, and a Midnight Blue Ric which erm...doesn't

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As I'm going to go ahead with putting a MM pickup in a spare P bass I've got I need to know the exact spot to put it. Did the pickup placement change over the years or has it always been consistent? 

If consistent, could some one with a Ray let me know the measurement from the bridge saddles to the lower edge of the pickup, the measurement will have to be from an average of the saddles as obviously they will all be different due to intonation. From the bridge edge would've been better but I won't be using a Ray bridge. 

If the placement changed over the years, what would be considered the best one to go for and why. 

Thanks. 🙂

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A good option for adding a MM pickup to a P is to place the pickups right next to each other. Then you have the 2 classic sounds available, even if the pickups blended don’t sound that great.

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24 minutes ago, Maude said:

As I'm going to go ahead with putting a MM pickup in a spare P bass I've got I need to know the exact spot to put it. Did the pickup placement change over the years or has it always been consistent? 

That "pickguard planet" sells 4 or 5, difference seems to be number of screws/countersunk or not/trussrod access.

 

When I stuck an MM in an old Peavey Foundation I intended going by the scratchplate,where the pickup landed was where it went.

Didn't workout like that due to the existing pickup routs.

pT60pBim.jpg

Had to move the scratchplate,you won't have that problem 🙂

xdiRAsom.jpg

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10 minutes ago, dannybuoy said:

A good option for adding a MM pickup to a P is to place the pickups right next to each other. Then you have the 2 classic sounds available, even if the pickups blended don’t sound that great.

It'll be having a MM pickup only. 

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2 minutes ago, kodiakblair said:

That "pickguard planet" sells 4 or 5, difference seems to be number of screws/countersunk or not/trussrod access.

 

When I stuck an MM in an old Peavey Foundation I intended going by the scratchplate,where the pickup landed was where it went.

Didn't workout like that due to the existing pickup routs.

pT60pBim.jpg

Had to move the scratchplate,you won't have that problem 🙂

xdiRAsom.jpg

This is another way of judging it but I've seen scratchplates with the pickup hole in varying places, also the neck route might not be the same as a Ray (I'm using an SX body) so I think the one measurement that counts in getting a pickup in the exact Ray placement along the speaking length of the string is from an average of the saddle distance to pickup. I'll make a scratchplate to suit whatever the distance from neck route to pickup ends up being if necessary. 🙂

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On 07/04/2020 at 18:39, mcnach said:

I was looking for a thread I participated in not long ago, where someone was asking for advice about making their Stingray style bass passive. Some people were claiming that the Stingray pickup needed a preamp as it's otherwise low output. There's also the question about the preamp, and some claim you need the preamp to sound like a Stingray.

I have experimented with this quite a bit years ago when I cannibalised an old OLP expanding the cavity under the pickguard and trying different pickups at different spots etc, so I know that passive MM pickups are more than just fine on their own, and that the single most important factor for THAT sound is the position of the pickup (which is why every other bass with a MM at the bridge that pushes the pickup towards the bridge, compared to a Stingray, sounds great but not have that Stingray type of sound, just liek you don't get a Precision sound unless you put that pickup where it should).

Here's an example I found on another forum. The guy put a cheap MM pickup on a Harley Benton Jazz, passive, but he put it exactly where it goes on a Stingray. Of course, it sounds like a Stingray. He just does not have the ability to get the wider range of sounds that the active onboard EQ would give him... but the sound is unmistakeably Stingray.

:)

See post #871 here:

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/music-man-sound-and-pickups.739218/page-44#post-23825611

 

It's a recipe of ingredients.  As an owner of a preEB ray and having faffed about with parts like a few others on here about 15 years ago, it's a combination of the pickup, ash body and maple neck, and pick up location primarily.  Depending on what you want, having a Baxendal based 2 band pre is helpful too for that Louis Johnson muscularity but not essential. 

Nordstrand do versions of the pickup, East do an improved version of the pre and the rest is down to your router.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Maude said:

As I'm going to go ahead with putting a MM pickup in a spare P bass I've got I need to know the exact spot to put it. Did the pickup placement change over the years or has it always been consistent? 

If consistent, could some one with a Ray let me know the measurement from the bridge saddles to the lower edge of the pickup, the measurement will have to be from an average of the saddles as obviously they will all be different due to intonation. From the bridge edge would've been better but I won't be using a Ray bridge. 

If the placement changed over the years, what would be considered the best one to go for and why. 

Thanks. 🙂

Here you go @Maude - however as stated previously, the sum of the construction of a Stingray, including the bridge, create the sound - for example the potential snappiness of the strings and other characteristics are audible acoustically. Pick up position is the same throughout, 1976 to date. 

image.thumb.jpeg.c4fffa837e6f8c00e0b98df2e8872c5c.jpeg

image.thumb.jpeg.1c3c0a30d3b6705ad1e871e1f0547961.jpeg

Edited by drTStingray

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Thanks @drTStingray.

This is only a bit of fun to use up some spare kit lying around as I'm getting bored. I have a right hand P body and a left hand maple blocked and bound jazz neck, tuners electrics, bridge etc, and I've just ordered a Warman MM pickup which is only £20. The only other bits I'll need are a scratchplate and control plate. So all in it'll be around £50 for a reverse necked precision-ray. 

As the blocks and binding are black on maple I was originally going for black body and black plate, but I might go gold body and black plate. 

As I said, it won't replace a gigging bass and will just be cheap fun but should result in a cool looking bass that sounds different from anything I've got at the moment. 

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Posted (edited)

No problem @Maude you're welcome.

I would try and get a cheap high mass bridge - one of those cheap copy Ray bridges they sell on EBay would do (similar to the SBMM Sub) - Juliaplaysgroove on You Tube uses an SBMM Sub Ray and it sounds pretty much like a Stingray to me. I think you may need something better than the BBOT type to get the string snap.

Sounds an interesting project! 

Btw I have to pinch myself every so often as my brain is now rewired to metric, but as you may well know, everything's measured in imperial on a Ray (and Fender) - hence showing inches - American!! 😏

Edited by drTStingray

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On 08/04/2020 at 11:14, bloke_zero said:

Welcome to my world:IMG_1305.thumb.jpg.426f591630eb721c782547531901403e.jpg

I've been wanting to do similar for a while, with a '54 slab body and paint it some shade of obnoxious metalflake purple or pink.

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Posted (edited)

While every bit counts, whether it's pickup, position, some talk about preamps and hardware, I thought I'd just make it easy and put this here. Draw your own conclusions.

This (Harley Benton Jazz bass, passive, with a $12 MM style pickup):

hb_jazz_mm_switch01.jpg?dl=1

 

sounds like this:

hbmm_sample02.mp3

 

(1. parallel   2. series   3. single coil (bridge-facing one))

 

😎

Edited by mcnach

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Thanks for doing that @mcnach. What controls have you got on that one?

Also forgive my ignorance, but isn't a classic Stingray bridge just a more rounded BBOT, albeit with string through body? 

As @drTStingraysaid, all the parts play their part, but surely getting a MM pickup in the right spot is the bulk of the sound?

 

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54 minutes ago, Maude said:

Thanks for doing that @mcnach. What controls have you got on that one?

Also forgive my ignorance, but isn't a classic Stingray bridge just a more rounded BBOT, albeit with string through body? 

As @drTStingraysaid, all the parts play their part, but surely getting a MM pickup in the right spot is the bulk of the sound?

 

You're right thebpick up position is an important element.

Strings through is only on pre EB to around 1980 and on the more recent Classic range. In all cases (except the Special - introduced 2018) the bridge is a thick piece of steel with two holding down bolts going deep into the body - the Specials have the same shaped bridge but in aluminium to reduce weight and omit the deep holding down bolts. They all have significant area attached to the body 

image.thumb.jpeg.6527329c399ee1507f7baace1b7c4a42.jpeg

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4 hours ago, drTStingray said:

And if you want a glam rock bass, there are plenty of colours to choose from.

image.thumb.jpeg.f96e3444c36c002e9fb91a639ef69988.jpeg

image.thumb.jpeg.5f2a2ce6de6d655be1a9ed7026680d91.jpeg

Is the blue one yours drT.

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11 minutes ago, drTStingray said:

You're right thebpick up position is an important element.

Strings through is only on pre EB to around 1980 and on the more recent Classic range. In all cases (except the Special - introduced 2018) the bridge is a thick piece of steel with two holding down bolts going deep into the body - the Specials have the same shaped bridge but in aluminium to reduce weight and omit the deep holding down bolts. They all have significant area attached to the body 

image.thumb.jpeg.6527329c399ee1507f7baace1b7c4a42.jpeg

Thanks again. 👍

Yes I can see more surface contact area making a difference (maybe 😉), I'll see what I decide to do. I might just use a fender style and see what I think, easy enough to swap afterwards if the MM one has a larger footprint. 

Thanks for your help. 

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, Reggaebass said:

Is the blue one yours drT.

Yeah - Ive had it just over 18 months - now needs new strings - weighs around 8 lbs. Got a bit of banter from some band mates when I first got it asking if I was starting a glam rock band!! 

Edited by drTStingray
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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Maude said:

Thanks again. 👍

Yes I can see more surface contact area making a difference (maybe 😉), I'll see what I decide to do. I might just use a fender style and see what I think, easy enough to swap afterwards if the MM one has a larger footprint. 

Thanks for your help. 

No problem - from 96 to 2018 the non Classic series have a shortened version of that bridge omitting the mutes but still the same substantial steel casting and holding bolts. 

The cheaper copies (incl SBMM Sub)have a version of the large area bridge but in thinner material and held down at the sides by a couple of screws rather than the bolts. That version can be bought very cheaply on EBay - as you probably know EBMM only do the more major parts for a Stingray on an exchange basis. 

I shall be interested to see/hear the result 👍

Edited by drTStingray

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7 hours ago, Maude said:

 

If consistent, could some one with a Ray let me know the measurement from the bridge saddles to the lower edge of the pickup, the measurement will have to be from an average of the saddles as obviously they will all be different due to intonation. From the bridge edge would've been better but I won't be using a Ray bridge. 

 

🙂

You'd be better off with the distance from the 12th fret to the coil centres.

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1 hour ago, Maude said:

Thanks for doing that @mcnach. What controls have you got on that one?

Also forgive my ignorance, but isn't a classic Stingray bridge just a more rounded BBOT, albeit with string through body? 

As @drTStingraysaid, all the parts play their part, but surely getting a MM pickup in the right spot is the bulk of the sound?

 

 

It's not my bass, it's on the thread I linked to on my first post, but the guy said it's just a volume control, no tone. The switch is to select between coils in parallel, series, or just the bridge-facing single coil. 

The Stingray classic bridge is a much heavier piece of metal than Fender's BBOT types. How much that affects anything is debatable, but I do prefer it, although I have no problems with those BBOT bridges. I like how the studs at each side keep the saddles from moving laterally on the older Stingray bridges. Some BBOT bridges have grooves to keep saddles in place, but not all. I also like the look of the Stingray bridge :)

My personal impression is that a MM style pickup at the right place gives you most of the Stingray sound. The rest are yummy cherries on top. Remove the preamp, or change anything else... you can still hear THAT sound, but keep everything else and move the pickup elsewhere, or install another type of pickup, and you lose it. Although it really depends on the pickup. I tried several Precision pickups at the Stingray spot during my bored experimental days :) and while some pickups sounded nothing like a Stingray, there were a couple that weren't that far! Of course, do I remember which ones were they? :( I don't.

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5 hours ago, drTStingray said:

And if you want a glam rock bass, there are plenty of colours to choose from.

image.thumb.jpeg.f96e3444c36c002e9fb91a639ef69988.jpeg

image.thumb.jpeg.5f2a2ce6de6d655be1a9ed7026680d91.jpeg

 

That blue sparkle Stingray... ufffff... everytime I see it I feel my hand reaching out for the credit card, and I am not a fan of either sparkle or rosewood fingerboards, but that one is just stunning!

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