Fender Original Finishes?

[dodgnofski]

Hi Chaps, any opinions on wether or not these neck pockets indicate original finishes, or possible resprays? They are a 63, a '61 and a '65 - which shows the bare wood from where the paddle was fitted during spraying which I always thought usually indicated an original finish, but not sure if the same method was used on earlier Fenders? - thank you👍👍

 

[Chiliwailer]

No hard and fast rules with Fender, but read the text under the red Jazz Bass in this link http://www.guitarhq.com/fenderc.html

Sure you’re aware, Fender factory was inconsistent, plus often used old stock. And of course, looking for those other clues too of a respray 

Edited April 1, 2020 by Chiliwailer

[dodgnofski]

Thank you 👍👍

[Grahambythesea]

Didn’t Selmer confuse the situation by respraying sunburst models red, (because of the Shadows’ red strats) and these were the ones that ended up a kind of salmon pink.

[Steve Browning]

I'm pretty sure that salmon pink is the result of fiesta red fading.

[Grahambythesea]

11 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

I'm pretty sure that salmon pink is the result of fiesta red fading.

Yes it is but it happened really quickly on these Selmer resprays.

There is an article on Reverb about it and some of the reds came out pink.

Edited April 3, 2020 by Grahambythesea
Added content

[gareth]

On 01/04/2020 at 16:21, Chiliwailer said:

No hard and fast rules with Fender, but read the text under the red Jazz Bass in this link http://www.guitarhq.com/fenderc.html

Sure you’re aware, Fender factory was inconsistent, plus often used old stock. And of course, looking for those other clues too of a respray 

Because of this I wonder how many Fenders have been wrongly treated and priced as being original when they are not and how many have been wrongly treated and priced as being non original when they were intact original?

[Burns-bass]

30 minutes ago, gareth said:

Because of this I wonder how many Fenders have been wrongly treated and priced as being original when they are not and how many have been wrongly treated and priced as being non original when they were intact original?

The rule of thumb is to assume everything has been changed unless proven otherwise! There are lots of fakes out there waiting for an unsuspecting buyer. I’d also suggest now maybe the worst time ever to pay top dollar for a vintage guitar, especially given the precipitous fall in prices seen during previous recessions.

[drTStingray]

On 3 April 2020 at 17:06, Steve Browning said:

I'm pretty sure that salmon pink is the result of fiesta red fading.

This is true but fiesta red is notorious for looking different dependent on the lighting conditions. Same bass - different ambient lighting - it looks even lighter pink in some lights, almost light orange in others. 

You can see why people called it flamenco pink or salmon pink - also compounded by the fact the original Cliff Richard Strat import for Hank Marvin was not even called fiesta red at that time (Fullerton red officially, but just red as far as CR/HBM were concerned). You can see where and how the confusion developed. 

 

Edited April 10, 2020 by drTStingray

[durhamboy]

Trying to work out how and which Fender bodies may or may not be original finishes can be pretty difficult at times. Apparently respraying bodies in the factory wasn't uncommon, particularly in the early years of the 50's and early 60's. Mistakes in finishes, particularly sunbursts were often over sprayed and owners instruments could be returned to the factory and resprayed on request, for a fee. (Though those resprays were recorded with stamps in the body, usually under the pickguards.)

Impressions of neck sticks/paddles didn't always show, at least not in the same way on each body, if at all, because of the way bodies were sprayed. The front of the body will have small nail holes (commonly 3 of them) in places which would not show. The nails were left proud to hold the front of the body up while the sides and back were sprayed. Two of the bodies in the photos seem to have nail holes showing next to the bass side of the neck pocket (?)

One of the things about early Fender production was that although it was factory assembly line construction, that was only up to a point. Pickups were wound my individuals, bodies were sanded and sprayed by individuals and so on. This wasn't CNC machine manufacture and computer controlled pickup winding and such. 

I started doing guitar repairs in 1981 and worked on a fair number of old Fenders, though I'd never claim to be an expert on them in terms of verifying originality. I made a point of learning as much as I could so as to "do no harm" when working on them, but the level of variation from instrument to instrument can be quite surprising by today's standards.