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Clarky

Why do some BC sellers insist on buyer arranging courier?

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If it’s a bass I’ll always try and arrange a meet up half way. Driving the car is some of the only peace and quiet I get nowadays and I always prefer the buyer to try the goods first if I can. Normally a mutually convenient location can be found and combined with a day out somewhere. 

But I have posted before, it’s easy. Hard case (add the cost of a cheap one to the item price), foam and bubble wrap, bicycle box and tape. 

Unless I’m in a real rush though I’ll wait for a meet up scenario. 

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Selling a bass , i guess the seller needs to do everything they can if they want a sale. On the otherhand, it maybe  that buyers needs to put themselves out too, if its a bass they really want.

Just sold a fretless to  a lovely BC member, who was fine with arranging a courier.  I didnt want to post because i had no hard case.

Buyer sent his own hard case acoss,  i packed it  ( very well packed )  and buyer did the rest.  We were both happy.

Go figure..

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I think is the seller responsibility to post otherwise just list the item as collection only....

if you are buying an instrument from bass direct  or any other bass shop they will post it to you. They would never ask you to organise your own postage

You selling you post it simple

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Posted (edited)

A private individual is not  a business, unlike Bass Direct/bass shops. By what right are you demanding that that someone should post an item (and accept the risks of doing so) to you? If you want it so badly, either arrange your own courier/pick up or get off your behind and go and collect it.

Edited by Dan Dare
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14 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

A private individual is not  a business, unlike Bass Direct/bass shops. By what right are you demanding that that someone should post an item (and accept the risks of doing so) to you? If you want it so badly, either arrange your own courier/pick up or get off your behind and go and collect it.

Like I've said above, just list the item as pick  up only then a person can make is mind up. if I really wanted that instrument I'll drive not a problem  done it many times

I posted basses all over and never had a problem.

I charge for postage and I include the right value of the  instrument and insure it in case something might happen then I'm covered

it's not demanding but people always complain about market being slow and I find that offering the service of posting the item speeds things up

personally if I'm buying I like the item to be posted as I live far from bass players 😂 if I have to arrange my own courier that means(as above) asking all kind o info to the seller and that puts me off

Weight dimension.....

 Then what if tge item gets damage cause packaging  on the other side was terrible?

 

 

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Well, as far as BC goes for buying, check the feedback. That's what it's for.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Dan Dare said:

A private individual is not  a business, unlike Bass Direct/bass shops. By what right are you demanding that that someone should post an item (and accept the risks of doing so) to you? If you want it so badly, either arrange your own courier/pick up or get off your behind and go and collect it.

No seller is off the hook if they packed the item poorly! The courier is there to collect, not to oversee packaging and confirm everything is secure unless hired for such a service. If I, as seller, am a silly billy and throw the bass in a $5 carry case how is the courier or the buyer responsible when the bass gets damaged on its way to the buyer? No offense but I find this simply excuses for insecure sellers to sleep better at nights. You either offer both collection and shipping or just collection.

Dan it is no demand. If not clearly stated in the  for sale ad "collection only" i will kindly ask the seller if posting would be an option, again "ask" not "demand". If the seller offers shipping I will then politely ask how will he ship? In a Tesco bag, original carton, HSC? I will always pay for the shipping costs, as is my obligation as a buyer.

I am still trying to understand if there is a UK law relieving the seller from all liability when he ships an item only when the buyer "arranges own courier"?

Edited by Samuel Burns
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I changed to "buyer arrange shipping" a couple of years back.

This was when shipping costs rocketed, for example, a £1200 bass was going to cost over £70 insured from Wigan to London.

The buyer didn't want to pay that so I offered them the chance to book their own, save some money AND TAKE THE RISK FOR THAT. 

They declined.

I know when I send a bass it will be very well packed and as per photos in the advert. I also take photos of the packing process.

I don't want to be tied up with;

A. Chasing courier up because it's gone AWOL

B. Spend months trying to get my money back from a courier who has charged me to insure they have dove the job I paid for!!!🤬

C. Both are exacerbated if outside of UK. In the UK theoretically I  could (well, not for the next 3 weeks) get in my car, drive to the UK HO of the courier &  cause them some grief!

So, if you can't come to my house or meet up half way......................

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Here’s an example. I bought a pick up, small easily packaged but it was expensive and unfortunately got lost in the system. I sought a full refund and the seller refused saying why should they suffer the loss. I presumed the item was insured and said just claim it back on the shipping cover. I was told I didn’t specify that I wanted the item insured and it was implied that I was only asking about insurance now the item was lost. I explained I’d just presumed that the item would have been insured because it was about £200 value. It became a whole mess trying to get my money back made worse by a seller who appeared to abdicate responsibility, turning it back on me because I hadn’t insisted on insurance from the outset. 
 

Both of us were ‘right’ but equally both of us made some plain errors in not insisting on a few basics. 

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8 hours ago, Dan Dare said:

A private individual is not  a business, unlike Bass Direct/bass shops. By what right are you demanding that that someone should post an item (and accept the risks of doing so) to you? If you want it so badly, either arrange your own courier/pick up or get off your behind and go and collect it.

Why shouldn’t the seller post? If you want to sell it so bad, get off your behind and post it. You’re the one asking for upfront payment with nothing but a promise to deliver!

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Seeing @krispn above reminded me of the time I sold him a Lakland and the stress and embarrassment I felt when he took the day off work to receive it and then the courier decided not to deliver it the arranged day, but the day after instead. All worked out fine in the end, but it did require him taking a second day off work.

That was probably the straw that broke the camels back and made me switch to collection only - either by yourself or by your courier.

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32 minutes ago, Graham said:

Seeing @krispn above reminded me of the time I sold him a Lakland and the stress and embarrassment I felt when he took the day off work to receive it and then the courier decided not to deliver it the arranged day, but the day after instead. All worked out fine in the end, but it did require him taking a second day off work.

That was probably the straw that broke the camels back and made me switch to collection only - either by yourself or by your courier.

Time off work is no hardship ;)

 

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57 minutes ago, FDC484950 said:

Why shouldn’t the seller post? If you want to sell it so bad, get off your behind and post it. You’re the one asking for upfront payment with nothing but a promise to deliver!

As it happens, I don't want to sell anything "so bad". But wait. What's that I smell? Ah yes, the whiff of an entitled millennial. 

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20 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

As it happens, I don't want to sell anything "so bad". But wait. What's that I smell? Ah yes, the whiff of an entitled millennial. 

You know nothing about me, but your comment says everything about you. And you had to make it personal, didn’t you...

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1 hour ago, FDC484950 said:

Why shouldn’t the seller post?

There have been numerous posts above stating various reasons. You may disagree, that's fine, but that doesn't change the validity of the reasons given. 

1 hour ago, FDC484950 said:

If you want to sell it so bad, get off your behind and post it.

I'd much rather the buyer "get off their behind" to collect it, but if they can't, they're welcome to send someone to collect it on their behalf. 

If that's a courier, I'll "get off my behind" to pack, weigh, measure and provide all relevant information to the buyer so they can go online and book a courier if their choosing. 

If the buyer doesn't want to stay on their behind and book a courier online, they obviously don't want the item that badly. 

1 hour ago, FDC484950 said:

You’re the one asking for upfront payment with nothing but a promise to deliver!

The upfront payment is only asked for if the buyer is unable to collect. 

If they are sending a 3rd party to collect, unless that 3rd party bring the cash, there is no other way to complete the transaction without the seller facing enormous and unnecessary risk. 

There is no promise to deliver, that's the entire point. There's only a promise that the item listed is as described. 

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1 hour ago, krispn said:

Here’s an example. I bought a pick up, small easily packaged but it was expensive and unfortunately got lost in the system. I sought a full refund and the seller refused saying why should they suffer the loss. I presumed the item was insured and said just claim it back on the shipping cover. I was told I didn’t specify that I wanted the item insured and it was implied that I was only asking about insurance now the item was lost. I explained I’d just presumed that the item would have been insured because it was about £200 value. It became a whole mess trying to get my money back made worse by a seller who appeared to abdicate responsibility, turning it back on me because I hadn’t insisted on insurance from the outset. 
 

Both of us were ‘right’ but equally both of us made some plain errors in not insisting on a few basics. 

 I presumed the item was insured 

Never do this 

A look at the shipping cost the seller quotes will usually confirm that it cannot possibly include insurance

Example

72 fender precision priced at £2500 with shipping £30

!!!!

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3 minutes ago, DoubleOhStephan said:

There have been numerous posts above stating various reasons. You may disagree, that's fine, but that doesn't change the validity of the reasons given. 

I'd much rather the buyer "get off their behind" to collect it, but if they can't, they're welcome to send someone to collect it on their behalf. 

If that's a courier, I'll "get off my behind" to pack, weigh, measure and provide all relevant information to the buyer so they can go online and book a courier if their choosing. 

If the buyer doesn't want to stay on their behind and book a courier online, they obviously don't want the item that badly. 

The upfront payment is only asked for if the buyer is unable to collect. 

If they are sending a 3rd party to collect, unless that 3rd party bring the cash, there is no other way to complete the transaction without the seller facing enormous and unnecessary risk. 

There is no promise to deliver, that's the entire point. There's only a promise that the item listed is as described. 

Er, I think you’ve missed the point. The promise to deliver is there IF a courier is arranged. It’s pretty obvious if it’s collection then it’s not relevant. Whether the item is as described or not has nothing to do with it. 
Now YOU may get off your behind and pack and weigh and measure and do everything to a tee, but frankly how does the buyer know that? You know, there are a lot of lazy people who can’t be bothered to do all of that stuff properly, and as a buyer you then assume ALL the risk by a) paying upfront b) booking the courier yourself c) hope the seller answers the door and e) working things out if the parcel is damaged or lost. 
The answer to all this is of course to collect. Let’s just agree to disagree - you think a buyer expecting the seller to courier is lazy, I think a seller washing their hands of the transaction once they have the money and the bass is picked up is also lazy.

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One thing about who posts.

If i was the seller and posting,   i'd insure anything valuable to the hilt. Since i'm taking responsibility for postage, then i'm responsible for the item until delivered safely.

Insurance is protection for who arranges postage.

If the buyer arranges their own courier, then insure valuable items to the hilt.   But always read the scamming small print.  The devil is always in the detail

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, FDC484950 said:

Er, I think you’ve missed the point. The promise to deliver is there IF a courier is arranged. It’s pretty obvious if it’s collection then it’s not relevant. Whether the item is as described or not has nothing to do with it. 

I don't think I have. The promise to deliver if a courier is arranged is made between the buyer and whoever they choose to collect and deliver the item.

The seller is not involved with this transaction so has no promise to keep. 

The only promise made between the buyer and seller is that the item they are transacting is as described in the advertisement. 

1 hour ago, FDC484950 said:

Now YOU may get off your behind and pack and weigh and measure and do everything to a tee, but frankly how does the buyer know that?

Because it would be one of the promises made if an agreement was reached for the buyer to arrange collection. 

But, really how does any buyer know that a random stranger off the Internet will package an item so well that it's impossible for it to be damaged in transit? 

1 hour ago, FDC484950 said:

You know, there are a lot of lazy people who can’t be bothered to do all of that stuff properly

Yes, and there are a lot of people who offer to arrange couriers who are incompetent at packaging. 

1 hour ago, FDC484950 said:

as a buyer you then assume ALL the risk by a) paying upfront b) booking the courier yourself c) hope the seller answers the door and e) working things out if the parcel is damaged or lost. 

A) Yes. If you want something that you are unable to collect, you have to accept the risk of paying upfront for it for it to be delivered. Or should sellers just send their property to strangers on a promise it will be paid for when delivered? There is a reason why no one does this. 

B) Yes. Once payment has been made it is your property. Ensuring you get your property delivered safely and at a cost you're happy with is entirely at your own risk. 

C) Yes. You have to hope the seller opens the door. 

D) 

E) Yes. If the agreement you have made between yourself and whoever you choose to deliver the item goes wrong, it is entirely your responsibility to work things out. 

1 hour ago, FDC484950 said:

The answer to all this is of course to collect.

Yes, that is the answer. 

1 hour ago, FDC484950 said:

Let’s just agree to disagree - you think a buyer expecting the seller to courier is lazy, 

I've already given plenty of reasons why I want a buyer to arrange collection and it is nothing to do with laziness. The only time "laziness" has come into it is in echoing your words to highlight the flaw in your logic.

Look, if a buyer doesn't want to arrange collection, that's fine. I completely understand that they may not want to accept the all the risks as lined out above (that we both agree on). 

As a seller, I don't want to accept those risks either, hense the request for collection in person. 

I don't think it's fair that a seller should be made to accept these risks if the buyer is unable to meet a condition of sale, especially if the seller is prepared to waive a key condition of sale to the benefit of the buyer. 

1 hour ago, FDC484950 said:

I think a seller washing their hands of the transaction once they have the money and the bass is picked up is also lazy.

I have a bass for sale on the marketplace at the moment, may I take you through my "sales process" to see if that helps you reassess if you think I'm being lazy? - 

Strip, clean and deep polish bass

Repair or replace any faulty hardware & electronics 

(If modifying) source, order and install all new parts

Roll fingerboard edges, degloss neck

Reassemble and set up with low action

Take tons of photographs, select and edit those for the ad

Write ad, try to include as much detail as possible, highlight all faults with pics, provide weight and tech spec if possible

Pay a subscription to BC to advertise for sale

Make no profit. 

Edited by DoubleOhStephan
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6 minutes ago, DoubleOhStephan said:

I have a bass for sale on the marketplace at the moment

Another Eastbourne resident! Didn't realise there were any other Basschatters round here

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14 minutes ago, Graham said:

Another Eastbourne resident! Didn't realise there were any other Basschatters round here

Well look at that! I'm a newbie, only been here in Redoubt since November. Whereabouts are you? 

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14 minutes ago, DoubleOhStephan said:

Well look at that! I'm a newbie, only been here in Redoubt since November. Whereabouts are you? 

Over in Old Town, not been here that long either, moved three years ago in May

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I think everyone has to make their own decisions as to what they think is the best.

However as a buyer, if I can't come and collect I expect the seller to organise shipping and if they are not prepared to do that then I'm not interested in buying.

As a seller, I organise the shipping using the most appropriate method for the item being sent along with full insurance to cover the cost of the item plus the any additional costs. The cost of shipping, insurance, and any specialised packaging materials I might need are included in the price of the item. If the buyer doesn't like this they are welcome to come and collect, otherwise they should look else where to buy.

Over 10 years buying and selling in excess of £50k worth of musical equipment I have had 3 shipping problems - 2 where parcels were "lost" and one where it was damaged in transit. In all three cases because I had packaged the items properly and had bought the correct insurance, the claims were settled promptly and in full, and I was able to refund the buyer without any issues.

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There isn't really a right or a wrong way to do this.  It all comes down to both buyer and seller agreeing the terms of the transaction in the first place and then being decent enough to fulfil their responsibilities, e.g. item as described, proper packing, adequate insurance, chasing delivery company.

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