Stews Learning Transcription Thread

[stewblack]

Hi guys and gals, I have a question. I can show a bar of music two ways. Both sound correct when Musescore plays them back to me but which (if either) is the correct or more acceptable way to write them?

[stewblack]

Also if anyone has a minute, I'm getting a little bit knotted up over repeats

 

[itu]

7 hours ago, stewblack said:

...a bar of music two ways. Both sound correct when Musescore plays them back to me but which (if either) is the correct or more acceptable way to write them?

My choice would be the one that fits better the lyrics, or the feel if there were lyrics. I kind of see the notes like "to - ma - toe gar-lic" OR "to me the gar-lic". Got it? (Now I need some pizza.)

[jrixn1]

8 hours ago, stewblack said:

which (if either) is the correct or more acceptable way to write them?

Neither notation is more correct than the other - it depends what you're trying to convey.

A quaver is simply half as long as a crotchet; apart from that, nothing else changes.

Whereas the nuance of staccato is that it is not just shorter, but it should sound detached. It's interpretive, and down to the individual musician e.g. perhaps more intense, or with more attack.

 

8 hours ago, stewblack said:

Also if anyone has a minute, I'm getting a little bit knotted up over repeats

What's the question about repeats?

[stewblack]

1 hour ago, itu said:

My choice would be the one that fits better the lyrics, or the feel if there were lyrics. I kind of see the notes like "to - ma - toe gar-lic" OR "to me the gar-lic". Got it? (Now I need some pizza.)

the second one then. Thank you 🙏

[stewblack]

3 minutes ago, jrixn1 said:

What's the question about repeats?

is there an accepted rule as to how many bars before I use repeat lines. say if I have 8 bars then they're repeated should I use the repeat sign bar lines, but if its only 4 bars then just write the four out again? 

And if I later use DC al coda will those repeat bars count again when they're reached second time through? 

Edited April 11, 2020 by stewblack

[jrixn1]

28 minutes ago, stewblack said:

is there an accepted rule as to how many bars before I use repeat lines. say if I have 8 bars then they're repeated should I use the repeat sign bar lines, but if its only 4 bars then just write the four out again?

Good question.  I don't think there's a rule; as ever, do whatever is the clearest (which can be subjective).

Also consider the "repeat the last n bars" symbol (not sure of its official name):

 

[jrixn1]

29 minutes ago, stewblack said:

And if I later use DC al coda will those repeat bars count again when they're reached second time through? 

Another good question 😃  I think in some types of classical music, the repeats are skipped once you have followed the DC instruction.  However, if I was handed a pop chart, I'd probably play all the repeats, even the second time round.

[stewblack]

Thank you @jrixn1. Appreciate your help. It seems I need to just keep on with this until the hard and fast rules, the accepted conventions and the whatever works best, all become less tangled! 

[cb1]

13 hours ago, jrixn1 said:

Another good question 😃  I think in some types of classical music, the repeats are skipped once you have followed the DC instruction.  However, if I was handed a pop chart, I'd probably play all the repeats, even the second time round.

It is best to indicate whether repeats are to be played on the D.S. or not.

”Play repeats on D.S” or “No repeat on D.S”

[stewblack]

58 minutes ago, cb1 said:

It is best to indicate whether repeats are to be played on the D.S. or not.

”Play repeats on D.S” or “No repeat on D.S”

written where? 

[cb1]

Usually above where the repeat in question starts or where you put  theDS al coda

[itu]

Con rep. = with repeat(s)

Senza rep. = without repeat(s)

D.C. (da Capo) = jump to the start

D.S. (dal Segno) = jump to the Segno (mark)

al Fine = continue until Fine, and stop there

al Coda = continue until Coda mark, and jump to Coda

Fine = ending

Edited April 12, 2020 by itu

[itu]

OK, one teacher from my music school had some references:

• Dolmetsch Online - Music Theory & History
• The Big Site of Music Notation and Engraving
• Virginia Tech Multimedia Music Dictionary (see appendix, too)
• Treblis Software's Music Notation Reference Guide
• The Major Orchestra Librarians' Association Guidelines for Music Preparation
• Music-Notation.info links
• The Method Behind the Music

Books:

• Roemer, Clinton. 1973. The Art of Music Copying: The Preparation of Music for Performance. Sherman Oaks, CA: Roerick Music Co.
• Gerou, Tom & Linda Lusk. 1996. Essential Dictionary of Musical Notation. Los Angeles: Alfred Publishing Co.
• Brandt, Carl & Clinton Roemer. 1976. Standardized Chord Symbol Notation. A Uniform System for the Music Profession. Sherman Oaks, CA: Roerick Music Co.
• Krummel, D.W. & Stanley Sadie (eds.). 1990. Music Printing & Publishing, The Norton/Grove Handbooks in Music. New York: W.W. Norton & Co.
• Boehm, Laszlo. 1961. Modern Music Notation. New York: G. Schirmer, Inc.
• Adler, Samuel. 1989. The Study of Orchestration. (2nd ed.) New York: W. W. Norton &Co.
• Piston, Walter. 1955. Orchestration. New York: W.W.Norton & Company, Inc.

[stewblack]

1 hour ago, itu said:

OK, one teacher from my music school had some references:

• Dolmetsch Online - Music Theory & History
• The Big Site of Music Notation and Engraving
• Virginia Tech Multimedia Music Dictionary (see appendix, too)
• Treblis Software's Music Notation Reference Guide
• The Major Orchestra Librarians' Association Guidelines for Music Preparation
• Music-Notation.info links
• The Method Behind the Music

Books:

• Roemer, Clinton. 1973. The Art of Music Copying: The Preparation of Music for Performance. Sherman Oaks, CA: Roerick Music Co.
• Gerou, Tom & Linda Lusk. 1996. Essential Dictionary of Musical Notation. Los Angeles: Alfred Publishing Co.
• Brandt, Carl & Clinton Roemer. 1976. Standardized Chord Symbol Notation. A Uniform System for the Music Profession. Sherman Oaks, CA: Roerick Music Co.
• Krummel, D.W. & Stanley Sadie (eds.). 1990. Music Printing & Publishing, The Norton/Grove Handbooks in Music. New York: W.W. Norton & Co.
• Boehm, Laszlo. 1961. Modern Music Notation. New York: G. Schirmer, Inc.
• Adler, Samuel. 1989. The Study of Orchestration. (2nd ed.) New York: W. W. Norton &Co.
• Piston, Walter. 1955. Orchestration. New York: W.W.Norton & Company, Inc.

Fantastic thank you so much

 

[FDC484950]

On 11/04/2020 at 15:11, stewblack said:

Hi guys and gals, I have a question. I can show a bar of music two ways. Both sound correct when Musescore plays them back to me but which (if either) is the correct or more acceptable way to write them?

As others have said, the first example is staccato, the other is a precise instruction to play for half a beat, then silence for the other half. It depends how precise you want to be. Generally in pop music charts I’d choose the first option as it’s easier to read. I’d only use the second option if I really wanted an exact half a beat. Another point is that the second option, whilst correctly written, would benefit from a little extra space after each of the eighth note rests to aid clarity - something Musescore can do manually but isn’t that great at automatically. 

[stewblack]

1 hour ago, FDC484950 said:

As others have said, the first example is staccato, the other is a precise instruction to play for half a beat, then silence for the other half. It depends how precise you want to be. Generally in pop music charts I’d choose the first option as it’s easier to read. I’d only use the second option if I really wanted an exact half a beat. Another point is that the second option, whilst correctly written, would benefit from a little extra space after each of the eighth note rests to aid clarity - something Musescore can do manually but isn’t that great at automatically. 

I rely on musescore playing it back to me to know how the score sounds. Obviously not perfect but literally the only option. The two examples I gave sound identical to one another. I understand the difference as you've explained it, so thank you. 

As far as spacing goes, next time I sit down for a musescore lesson (as opposed to a transcription lesson) I will address this. 

Much love and gratitude for all the help. 

[stewblack]

Oh, and by the way, before my chronic fatigue kicked in and put me back to bed, I tried a little sight reading. Just to see what, if any, impact all this has had. 

Not just the transcription work, but also the online tuition via @Zoltan Dekany's website.

I was amazed. I'm still nowhere near able, but the improvement was clear and unarguable. Playing without reference to the fretboard, looking ahead while playing, good finger choices, not confusing notes with those from the treble clef (a chronic headache) as often.

I really think it is all having a positive impact. 

None of which would apply without the good people here on Basschat. 

[stewblack]

Hi folks, another day another bass transcription, another question.

I have an eight bar section repeats six times. Is this too many to just write 'six times' and enclose it in repeat signs? What is the conventional wisdom? Would that make it a bit of a nightmare to count? Sould I write it out twice and only repeat three times?

This is what it looks like at the moment

Oh and where should the 'six times' go? at the end of the section or where it is now?

Edited April 21, 2020 by stewblack

[jrixn1]

I'd prefer to have the instruction located by the "end repeat" sign, as that is where my eye is at the time I have to make the decision whether to repeat or go on.  Otherwise I might have forgotten by now how many times I was meant to play it, etc.

Writing "6 times" is probably clear enough, but it is possible someone might think you mean "Repeat 6 times" which, very strictly speaking, means you play it seven times in total.  So I'd write "Play 6 times" to make it completely unambiguous.

[FDC484950]

... or even a plain 6x or x6. I often do this as there may be chord symbols and other signs cluttering up the stave. Whichever way, have it at the ending repeat rather than the beginning .

@stewblack what’s the intention with the slide at the beginning of bar 16? If a slide you’d normally have it from note head to note head (so from the last beat B of the previous bar to the first beat of bar 16 - C). If a slide from, say an open A (or even lower if playing the C on the E string) I guess it’s right, if a bit tricky to play, depending on tempo.

[stewblack]

The slide is just bad Musescore work. I meant to signify no gap between the b and the c but I didn't use the right symbol. 

[FDC484950]

Ah I see, makes sense. Unfortunately Musescore doesn’t have all of the possible ties, slurs and slides - for example a slide downward without an ending note. Another useful omission is the ability to tie a note from the end of a first/second ending back to the start of the repeat (which would normally be in brackets at the first note of the repeat). But good, nevertheless!

[stewblack]

13 hours ago, FDC484950 said:

Unfortunately Musescore doesn’t have all of the possible ties, slurs and slides

I think there is a better choice than the one I made. 

I have to say Musescore is an astonishing achievement. And to be given away for free too! The deeper I delve into transcribing the more I discover in the programme.

They set themselves a heck of a task creating useable software to cope with the myriad possibilities thrown up when creating a score. 

Bravo! 

[FDC484950]

Definitely. About 10 years ago I looked at Finale Coda, which was at the time about £450 and on the notation side Musescore is actually easier to use and just as fully-featured.