xgsjx Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 My rock band recorded a few songs several months ago in a studio. We mic'd up the drum kit & the guitar amps & I DI'd straight from my amp to the mixer & recorded the instruments & then did a separate take for the vocals (so the vocal mic didn't get bleed). We went thru a mixer straight onto an Alesis HD recorder (A big complex heap of sh!te). I then got all the individual tracks & proceeded to mix them in Garageband & Audacity (it was losing top end when mixing down in GB) & have spent ages on these but they still don't sound right & not anything like we do when playing live or in rehearsals. Could anyone take a listen & tell me where I'm going wrong? I've heard loads of other folks stuff mixed in GB & it sounded good but I just can't seem to get this right & I'm wondering if it's just cause I've heard the songs so much. Here's our MySpace link, all 4 songs was done on the same day. [url="http://www.myspace.com/frigorific"]http://www.myspace.com/frigorific[/url] It also seems to be a bit low in volume compared to other stuff too & I keep trying to get the volume up without peaking. Should I pop some compression on each track to level everything? The initial recordings I got was all really low in volume. Am I trying to polish a jobby & should we go to a different studio & redo it all? Cheers, G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slaphappygarry Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Hey man, First of, the Alesis is a very high quality bit of kit and Garage band is pretty rubbish as far as doing more than note booking. Garage Band AUTOMATICALLY converts every file into mp3 format (thats where your sound quality has dropped). As for the your stuff, its actually sounds alright. Certainly not brilliant but everything is clean and clear (and you guys have played well). I suggest you do exactly as I advised here: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=39501"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=39501[/url] (post 11) Then, next time when you do it yourself, you will have a better idea of what you are up to. Regarding the volume thing, have a little google search for 'mastering'. Read up on compression. Read up on EQ. Apply these things to your mix (sparingly). Good luck G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slaphappygarry Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Yes, you probably have listened to them too much. By the end of every project I convince myself that I have ruined the artists careers and they the stuff sounds terrible. A few weeks later I am surprised how good they turn out. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted February 8, 2009 Author Share Posted February 8, 2009 Cheers, That link gave for some good reading & shall have another go from scratch & see how things turn out. The Alesis HD does have an excellent sound quality, it's just too complex for it's own good & we lost stuff on it (the engineer said he's gonna get a tekky to try & get the other 3 tracks off it). I did read some stuff on finalising the mix using compression, eq & reverb & I put a touch of these onto the overall mix which has me wondering, if there is something peaking like an occasional drum, would this cause the compressor to keep the volume down? I could apply a touch of compression to all tracks individually to stop peaks & see if that will make a difference. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slaphappygarry Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 [quote]if there is something peaking like an occasional drum, would this cause the compressor to keep the volume down?[/quote] Quite the opposite to be honest man. The occasinal ones would be caught by the compression (so long as the threshold / attack / release at right) which would allow you to get the volume of the whole track up before clipping the output. Most compressors will start with decent attack and release setting by default so lower the threshold until you get 2-3db gain reduction. If there are a few snare hits (for example) that the compressor is not compressing try speeding the attack (reaction time). There are lots of good books lurking about with all of this. I highly recommend you get one, a pot of coffee and work through the theory on your mixes. Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouMa Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 I would get a decent outboard soundcard,use a better DAW and use some VSTS to adjust sound nuance you can get ones which provide analog warmth,better stereo spread etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jensenmann Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 If I had no clue I´d better have someone else mix it and sit beside him to learn what he is doing. Then I´d try it next time myself. (no offence!) And if your "engineer" lost files in a HD24 then he´d better not call himself engineer as this box is very straightforward and easy to use. Maybe he did other mistakes in recording bad signals, too low signals or whatever what will give you headache now. but this doesn´t help you in this particular case. How about this one: start listening to two instruments and ask yourself these questions: does the dynamic behaviour of these instruments fit together? if yes, then add the next instrument, if no then use a slight bit of compression to make them fit better. Are both source delivering important information in the same frequency range? If no, then cool, if yes then a) try to pan them apart decide which one is more important and cut this frequency area in the lesser important instrument using EQ c) use both a) and techniques. Then add the next instrument and go through the same questions. Always use a little less EQ/Comp as would make it obiously recognizable. As a beginner you´d better use auto compressors because then you will do less mistakes in misaligning compression parameters. Use lower ratios of compression (2:1). hope this helps good luck btw there are professional studios for some reason ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archetype Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 [quote name='jensenmann' post='403670' date='Feb 8 2009, 07:16 PM']And if your "engineer" lost files in a HD24 then he´d better not call himself engineer as this box is very straightforward and easy to use. Maybe he did other mistakes in recording bad signals, too low signals or whatever what will give you headache now.[/quote] The HD24 is a great little multitracker. Sounds great, i get the pleasure of using one runnin off a Neve VR desk. Sounds lovely. But they are prone to issues. especially with the hard drives which when they go can cause data loss. So i wouldn't say the engineer did something wrong as it could very easily have been the multi track. [url="http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/audio/pages/fullindex.htm"]http://www.saecollege.de/reference_materia...s/fullindex.htm[/url] Have a look at that link. Tonnes of info on all the EQ, compressors etc that you should find useful. I would also look into another DAW as mentioned since Garage band is pretty poor for what your using. Plus consider which monitors you are using. Laptop speakers or basic desktop PC speakers will sound very poor especialy in their bass deptartment. Best of luck though! G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldG Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 After trying out several DAW's I ended up using [url="http://reaper.fm/download.php"]Reaper[/url]. It is an unexpiring, fully featured demo that will let you work on those songs using as many VST's as you want.... Tip: Add the (included) Event Horizon2 Limiter onto the master track, set the ceiling at 0.01 the gradually raise the threshold until you have your desired volume.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 HD24's are, for the price, the best Harddisk recorder out there. Excellent ADA conversion, extremely simple interface really neat. If you had data loss due to hd issues then my guess is the hd's in question are probably pretty old (approaching or surpassed MTBF). HD24s use old PATA drives, really old tech by todays standards, perfectly adequate for their intended use, but the drives are often old. We run two of them hooked up to a mackie 32:8 + 24:8 extension, and it works really really well. Its simple enough for a drummer to run. But he does properly understand gain structure and tracking - I suggest you take some time to read up on this stuff! If the 'engineer' tracked stuff with very low levels he's rubbish, or not got decent kit - we use a series one focusrite octopre to ensure we get no overs on drums - brilliant kit. If the engineer lost stuff he either needs to own up or if its kit issues, then he needs to sort that out pronto or it will cost him work. Garage Band is dung, anything that only runs on mp3s is completely mickey mouse and not going to get you decent results. Sorry. Reaper is excellent and as close to freeware as you get on windows. Be careful with Maximisers, they all have artifacts that can make your mix seem great at the time but in retrospect sound very over produced at best - at worst you can crush the life out of a mix completely. Loudness is not everything. Look up frequency mixing, compression techniques, use of additive vs inline fx and creating a 3d field with all the previous to add depth to your mixes. Also join here:- [url="http://homerecording.com/bbs/"]http://homerecording.com/bbs/[/url] and start learning! I've not even touched mic choice or use as possible issues, or acoustic treatment, each of which are areas with tomes written about them by cleverer cats than me. If you think bass playing is a resource hog, home recording is a whole 'nuther galaxy of pain You'll love it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoonBassAlpha Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 There's something about the lead guitar sound that doesn't sound right to me. It sounds like guitar->fuzzbox->phaser straight into the desk. It doesn't seem to have any ambience, and sitting (too?) high in the mix, sticks out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I've done this before and it can work.... Upload your files somewhere and then we can have a go at doing our own mixes. I'd do you a quick mix, no problem. It's always good to have a new set of songs to work with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 Thanks for all the advice here, it's all good stuff. I know GB isn't a great bit of software (I used to use Reason 2.5 & Cubase 5.1 when I had a PC) but I've heard better results than what I've gotten. Reaper looks like a good bit of kit, so I'll give that a try. But I do need to get something decent like Logic or Ableton. I'll have a look at finding what places I can get some space to upload MP3s of files like cheddatom suggests (Reverbnation comes to mind) if anybody want's a mess with them. Cheers G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I come from a long Logic background. Reaper is up there in an awful lot of ways to be honest. Pretty much everything you will really _need_ to track and mix on a PC is there. The routing is excellent, the provided Rea_blah fx are very light on resources. So no for the forseeable future I dont think you _need_ to get a full fat DAW, reaper is a huuuge leap up from Audacity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 [quote name='xgsjx' post='405348' date='Feb 10 2009, 01:59 PM']I'll have a look at finding what places I can get some space to upload MP3s of files like cheddatom suggests (Reverbnation comes to mind) if anybody want's a mess with them. Cheers G[/quote] I'm always up for a bit of a remix too as it goes ;o) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archetype Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Check out Ardour (I think thats how its spelt) Freeware, mac friendly now. And i was playing with it today, pretty good if you ask me. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slaphappygarry Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 [quote]places I can get some space to upload MP3s of files[/quote] Its a turkey if you start with mp3 files dude. I don't mind hosting the .wav's if you can get me them. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 [quote name='slaphappygarry' post='406132' date='Feb 11 2009, 11:50 AM']Its a turkey if you start with mp3 files dude. I don't mind hosting the .wav's if you can get me them. G[/quote] He's been using garbage band so I suspect he only has mp3s at this point.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I do really mean it - get the wavs up and I'd love to have a crack at remixing it for you. Just the once mind ;o) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MananaMan Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 (edited) Yeah, I'd be happy to give this a once (or twice) over. As for pointers on where to go yourself, I'd say go out and find some similar tracks that have been done professionally, listen to each instumenton that recording and compare it how yours sound, see if you can spot where things sound different and tinker along from there. If you can't get the original tracks up and want some detailed pointers on a instrument-by-instrument style of breakdown, just give me a shout too, I can have a detailed listen on the good hi-fi and see if I can give you some starters for 10. I'd start off by asking politely that you trim out a little 200Hz from the kick drum, maybe dial in a little 1k. I'd give yourself a good long break before doing any of this though - if you've been working on these a lot you'll probably be deaf to what's going on - after more than a couple of weeks on one set of recordings you tend to go a bit mental and start changing things for the sake of it cos you can't hear what's going on any more! Edited February 12, 2009 by MananaMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slaphappygarry Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 [quote name='51m0n' post='407731' date='Feb 12 2009, 04:33 PM']He's been using garbage band so I suspect he only has mp3s at this point....[/quote] Did everything not start on an Aleses HD24? G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted February 14, 2009 Author Share Posted February 14, 2009 It did all start off on an Alesis HD, not sure if it is the 24 tho. I've downloaded Reaper & had 5 mins on it so far & it sounds much better already. It is more a case of getting things to "gel together" & sound like a finished song as opposed to high sound quality, but I suppose they go hand in hand. When I get some time I'll get the wavs for one of the tracks uploaded somewhere & post a link. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayfan Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 [quote name='slaphappygarry' post='403302' date='Feb 8 2009, 12:09 PM']Garage Band AUTOMATICALLY converts every file into mp3 format (thats where your sound quality has dropped).[/quote] You can switch this off though and bounce down to CD quality. Deselect "compress" when you click on the "Send to iTunes" tab on "Share". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted February 14, 2009 Author Share Posted February 14, 2009 [quote name='stingrayfan' post='409318' date='Feb 14 2009, 11:30 AM']You can switch this off though and bounce down to CD quality. Deselect "compress" when you click on the "Send to iTunes" tab on "Share".[/quote] I thought that, cause I had done that with tracks that arn't on Myspace, didn't sound any better tho. Does it convert the wav files to MP3 for individual tracks to start with tho as opposed to what you export it as? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MananaMan Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Garageband 08 allows you to record, import and export at 16-bit minimum (up to 24-bit). No mp3-quality tracking there. Which version were you using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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