70s Rickenbacker 4001 /4003 copy

[RichardD22]

Hello. Sorry for a cheeky first post. I have had this 20yrs and it was old when I got it and from other posts on here i imagine it's from 70s. I am pretty sure it's not a Rick but i have lots of questions if any of you kind people are able to assist please? Is it a 4001 or 4003 copy? What is the writing in the cavity? It has a neck through construction and is solid body and stereo sound. Someone has routed the which i understand does happen. But... What make is it? I can't find any examples of copies with writing like this in the cavity. What is the writing, Japanese? It appears to be under the lacquer.

I wonder if Bassassin or anyone else can advise please? 
Thank you!
Richard
From UK

 

Rick copy

[Raymondo]

If vers a bit missin frum yer sign off wot shud a sed

On b' half ov  Mr Jon all......

The boyz 'l send yer rahnd my gaff !*

*_{See DOI thread in " Off Topic"  for context.😉}

[Billy Apple]

No truss rod cover?

[MB1]

Think he needs to contact Bassassassin by PM on this and not postIng it here.

 

[Bassassin]

No reason not to post it here @MB1. He's not trying to sell it.

Hi @RichardD22 - that's a common, very good quality mid-70s Japanese-made 4001 copy. These were sold under various brands, and badged as Shaftesbury are the most common through-neck Rick copy in the UK. They also appear here badged as CMI, Cimar and JHS.

It's not 100% clear who made them but generally it's thought to be Chushin Gakki, one of the biggest Japanese manufacturers of the 70s & 80s.

Shame about the mods, but it would be pretty straightforward to return it to standard with replacement scratchplate & pickups. Recommend you join the Rickenfakers FB group for info, unbiased chat & contacts.

Interesting that it looks like the original bridge pickup's been moved to the neck position - there might be a code stamped underneath which can tell you its date of manufacture, and therefore an accurate age for the bass.

Apropos of nothing - the replacement bridge pickup looks like an early 70s Maxon bass humbucker. Cool old unit probably taken from an MIJ EB-0 or EB-3 copy.

[RichardD22]

3 hours ago, Raymondo said:

If vers a bit missin frum yer sign off wot shud a sed

On b' half ov  Mr Jon all......

The boyz 'l send yer rahnd my gaff !*

*_{See DOI thread in " Off Topic"  for context.😉}

Sorry, i don't understand...? 

[RichardD22]

36 minutes ago, Bassassin said:

No reason not to post it here @MB1. He's not trying to sell it.

Hi @RichardD22 - that's a common, very good quality mid-70s Japanese-made 4001 copy. These were sold under various brands, and badged as Shaftesbury are the most common through-neck Rick copy in the UK. They also appear here badged as CMI, Cimar and JHS.

It's not 100% clear who made them but generally it's thought to be Chushin Gakki, one of the biggest Japanese manufacturers of the 70s & 80s.

Shame about the mods, but it would be pretty straightforward to return it to standard with replacement scratchplate & pickups. Recommend you join the Rickenfakers FB group for info, unbiased chat & contacts.

Interesting that it looks like the original bridge pickup's been moved to the neck position - there might be a code stamped underneath which can tell you its date of manufacture, and therefore an accurate age for the bass.

Apropos of nothing - the replacement bridge pickup looks like an early 70s Maxon bass humbucker. Cool old unit probably taken from an MIJ EB-0 or EB-3 copy.

Ah thats fabulous. Thanks for the info. Thanks for your information and support. Interesting about the humbucker. I'll take a look at the pickups to assist with provenance. All I'm trying to do is learn a lot more about my bass as it bugs me not knowing so your info and knowledge is greatly appreciated. 

[RichardD22]

3 hours ago, Billy Apple said:

No truss rod cover?

Nope. Nothing 😒

[Bassassin]

2 minutes ago, RichardD22 said:

Sorry, i don't understand...? 

Me neither. I find the thread Mr Raymondo's referencing both baffling and terrifying in equal measure...

[Raymondo]

2 hours ago, RichardD22 said:

Sorry, i don't understand...? 

Don't worry It's just my silly sense of humour.....

John Hall, CEO of Rickenbacker Guitars is a notorious litigator and sues anyone or anything that relates to the "Fakers"

This very forum has been threatened by his highly paid lawyers in the past ..

I was merely combining the  the possibility of you being an undercover agent with a threat from my alter ego..Dr Ray Mondeaux.

[RichardD22]

53 minutes ago, Raymondo said:

Don't worry It's just my silly sense of humour.....

John Hall, CEO of Rickenbacker Guitars is a notorious litigator and sues anyone or anything that relates to the "Fakers"

This very forum has been threatened by his highly paid lawyers in the past ..

I was merely combining the  the possibility of you being an undercover agent with a threat from my alter ego..Dr Ray Mondeaux.

Haha! Very good.... I'm a bit too low brow to have understood first time round😉. Scary that they would go after people on a forum just for discussing it 😬😬 cripes! 

[Silvia Bluejay]

20 minutes ago, RichardD22 said:

Haha! Very good.... I'm a bit too low brow to have understood first time round😉. Scary that they would go after people on a forum just for discussing it 😬😬 cripes! 

They actually don't - this forum prohibits the advertising and sale of all Rickenbackers, real or fake. Discussion is absolutely fine.

[kodiakblair]

@RichardD22

Glad you followed my advice regarding posting here. I thought the lads would have a better idea about your bass. 

[Bassfinger]

Not that I'm an expert by any means, but to my eye the writing has more of a Korean look than Chinese or Japanese. 

It's likely 30-40 years old, which makes it unlikely to be Chinese.  I wouldn't say it isn't Japanesemfor sure, but Japanese basses in that style are much more unusual, so by an amazing piece of guesswork and elimination I'm going with late 70's and Korean.

Edited January 27, 2020 by Bassfinger

[RichardD22]

5 hours ago, kodiakblair said:

@RichardD22

Glad you followed my advice regarding posting here. I thought the lads would have a better idea about your bass. 

Ah thanks mate. Yes indeed. And that Bassassin chap/chapess is a legend. 😁 Everyone has been very helpful, thank you

[RichardD22]

2 hours ago, Bassfinger said:

Not that I'm an expert by any means, but to my eye the writing has more of a Korean look than Chinese or Japanese. 

It's likely 30-40 years old, which makes it unlikely to be Chinese.  I wouldn't say it isn't Japanesemfor sure, but Japanese basses in that style are much more unusual, so by an amazing piece of guesswork and elimination I'm going with late 70's and Korean.

Hmm, interesting to know thanks. I will look into Korean history possibility too, thank you

[prowla]

What @Bassassin said.

My first thought was an Ibby with the mudbucker neck pickup, but on closer inspection that wouldn't have had the bodged cutout in the pickguard.

As to why someone did that to the pickups, I don't know; it looks barmy to me!

The neck joint must be weak there, so it might need filling and re-cutting.

The changes are reversible and stock Ric parts will fit, in addition to vintage Japanese and current Retrovibe replacements.

This is my (Japanese) CMI, which I would say likely came off the same production line.

The slightly translucent pickguard shows more on mine, against the jetglo body.

 

 

Edited January 28, 2020 by prowla

[Bassassin]

6 hours ago, Bassfinger said:

Not that I'm an expert by any means, but to my eye the writing has more of a Korean look than Chinese or Japanese. 

It's likely 30-40 years old, which makes it unlikely to be Chinese.  I wouldn't say it isn't Japanesemfor sure, but Japanese basses in that style are much more unusual, so by an amazing piece of guesswork and elimination I'm going with late 70's and Korean.

As far as we know, no Korean manufacturer built a through-neck Faker in the 70s. However there's a theory amongst some vintage MIJ enthusiasts that some Japanese manufacturers had instruments shipped to Korea for assembly, as some sort of export duty loophole. Apparently Chushin (who I believe made this bass) had a Korean operation.

[prowla]

It's probably a 33.25" scale length too, like a real Ric; the bolt-on ones tended to be 34".

[RichardD22]

1 hour ago, prowla said:

It's probably a 33.25" scale length too, like a real Ric; the bolt-on ones tended to be 34".

Thanks. I assume i just measure the fretboard to find out. 

[RichardD22]

5 hours ago, Bassassin said:

As far as we know, no Korean manufacturer built a through-neck Faker in the 70s. However there's a theory amongst some vintage MIJ enthusiasts that some Japanese manufacturers had instruments shipped to Korea for assembly, as some sort of export duty loophole. Apparently Chushin (who I believe made this bass) had a Korean operation.

You should write a book with your knowledge and history! Amazing. So do you think mine is Chushin? Did they make for lots of brands? For info I looked under the pickups and there are no other markings of note. Thanks again

[RichardD22]

9 hours ago, prowla said:

What @Bassassin said.

My first thought was an Ibby with the mudbucker neck pickup, but on closer inspection that wouldn't have had the bodged cutout in the pickguard.

As to why someone did that to the pickups, I don't know; it looks barmy to me!

The neck joint must be weak there, so it might need filling and re-cutting.

The changes are reversible and stock Ric parts will fit, in addition to vintage Japanese and current Retrovibe replacements.

This is my (Japanese) CMI, which I would say likely came off the same production line.

The slightly translucent pickguard shows more on mine, against the jetglo body.

 

 

That's a nice bass mate! The black and white contrast is striking. But yes, the bodge job on mine is crazy. The neck feels fairly strong still but i may have to repair, like you say. 

[prowla]

5 hours ago, RichardD22 said:

Thanks. I assume i just measure the fretboard to find out. 

Nut to 12th fret and double it.

[prowla]

5 hours ago, RichardD22 said:

That's a nice bass mate! The black and white contrast is striking. But yes, the bodge job on mine is crazy. The neck feels fairly strong still but i may have to repair, like you say. 

You can look at the back where the neck joins the body and see if there are any signs of cracking/separation there. 

But the easiest way is if the action is ok then it’s alright. 

[steantval]

Just checked out the writing on the inside of the body and it translates to -

Special Fried Rice.