AeroTech cabs from GR. Wow

[Bunion]

On 24/09/2021 at 08:26, binky_bass said:

 

I concur with the feet... they need to be flatter and fatter and more stable. When I moved my AT410+ the other day it felt like the feet would sheer off if I pushed it across the floor.

 

If only they had removable castors… 

How’s that new rig going? 

[binky_bass]

18 minutes ago, Bunion said:

If only they had removable castors… 

How’s that new rig going? 

Indeed, but then that defeats the object of a super light cab! The cabs need a flat, fatter foot with a convex footprint, that would minimise contact with the ground whilst maintaining stability. 

 

The rig is good! My spine is very happy about only having a 24kg rig as opposed to the 120kg of the Mesa! 

[Stub Mandrel]

Ho hum.

 

There's a down side to a super efficient 2x12.

 

Last gig I had the Bass Terror set at absolute minimum volume, plus di into the pa. I was asked  but couldn't turn down any more. I have the dog's ⚽️⚽️ in the sound department but a  less efficient cab would make life easier...

[Chienmortbb]

On 27/10/2021 at 17:42, Stub Mandrel said:

 

I've done two gigs. In both cases there was a PA with 15" bass bins it was a bit academic. It's a powerful PA (3kW) but not run ridiculously loud, I have the Orange Bass terror at about 8:30 volume with gain about 3:00 and tine controls pretty much at noon, so not working hard at all for plenty of volume.

 

On the second gig I had to turn down as I was too loud for the PA. Then on the second set we played half the first song with everything but the vocal on mute. No-one noticed the difference - I was subconsciously digging in to make up for the reduced volume and then the PA came in and the roof nearly came off!

 

Second gig had a mate who does pro audio in the audience and he said our sound was cracking, the landlord booked us for New year and we got another booking but i'm not sure all of that was down to the cab...

 

Two issues - one of the feet has come loose and I've cracked one of the corner pieces. It slid off a chair, then tipped over so one corner hit the skirting board pretty hard. I suspect most speakers would have been unscathed, but it was quite a whack. The problem is that the cores of the carbon panels don't give the screws a lot to bite into, one of them was pulled loose and that allowed the corner to flex and split. The cab itself was fine. I plan to fit bigger, self-adhesive feet anyway (I don't like the little ones).  As for the corner, I might ask for a replacement, but as I have a 3D printer my most likely plan is to print slightly bigger, thicker corners in TPU (a flexible polymer) which will be much more shock absorbing.

 

My feedback for GR Bass will be to fit much more robust corners and consider some sort of inserts or reinforcement where screws are fitted.

 

 

 

 

I have criticsed the use of carbon fibre as a cabnet material but I think this is just early days in the technology. Against all my concerns GR can change the designs and hopefully prove me wrong. Of course the bset wat to strengthen carbon firbe is with wooden braces between the layers of carbon.

[E sharp]

Will this likely be more down to the volume taper of the amp? 

[la bam]

36 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

Ho hum.

 

There's a down side to a super efficient 2x12.

 

Last gig I had the Bass Terror set at absolute minimum volume, plus di into the pa. I was asked  but couldn't turn down any more. I have the dog's ⚽️⚽️ in the sound department but a  less efficient cab would make life easier...

 

Just turn the bass guitar volume down?

[Hellzero]

46 minutes ago, la bam said:

 

Just turn the bass guitar volume down?

Or the gain on the preamp...

[Wolverinebass]

Or just turn up and don't care.

[Stub Mandrel]

44 minutes ago, E sharp said:

Will this likely be more down to the volume taper of the amp? 

 

42 minutes ago, la bam said:

 

Just turn the bass guitar volume down?

 

9 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

Or the gain on the preamp...

 

To answer in reverse order, I need to have the bass and gain set high enough to get a decent sound (valve preamp) to DI into the PA so turning it down isn't practical.

 

This means I have to use the volume to control levels.

 

For rehearsals, I have the amp set louder as I don't go through the PA.

 

Basically combining a 500W rms amp with a 102dB cab is very loud, so  the practical minimum volume isn't to quiet. I can't get it quiet enough for use at home without using the 10dB pad and rolling back the gain, which is not much help.

 

On reflection, this pub was quite small and it didn't help we had parallel walls about 10 feet apart behind and in front of the left-hand PA speaker. I had a big resonance at A/Bb and that's pretty much exactly the wavelength fto fit between those walls. I think it was partly this resonance making the bass sound too loud.

 

Personally, the right solution would have been for me to not use the PA, or at just to have used one channel of the PA as the left-hand set wasn't doing much. In fact the whole way we were set up was pretty awful but what does a humble bass player know of such things?

[Downunderwonder]

15 hours ago, Chienmortbb said:

carbon fibre as a cabnet material but I think this is just early days

Carbon fibre cabs were falling into ruin ten years ago. It just isn't the right material for rectangular boxes and stuff fixed on with screws.

 

There's another composite material that is ideally suited. It's name is plywood.

[Chienmortbb]

10 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

Carbon fibre cabs were falling into ruin ten years ago. It just isn't the right material for rectangular boxes and stuff fixed on with screws.

 

There's another composite material that is ideally suited. It's name is plywood.

That is really what I was saying but I was trying to be tactful. 

[binky_bass]

10 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

Carbon fibre cabs were falling into ruin ten years ago. It just isn't the right material for rectangular boxes and stuff fixed on with screws.

 

There's another composite material that is ideally suited. It's name is plywood.

I don't really agree with that. 

 

My GR AT410+ cab is an excellent bit of kit. Super light, sounds amazing, solidly built. No problems! Unless you treat your gear with a very heavy hand...? 

[Chienmortbb]

1 hour ago, binky_bass said:

I don't really agree with that. 

 

My GR AT410+ cab is an excellent bit of kit. Super light, sounds amazing, solidly built. No problems! Unless you treat your gear with a very heavy hand...? 

I think the the point is that the ideal material for a cabinet sonically is MDF but that is too heavy and is not very resilient to knocks and it is very heavy. Plywood is not as good sonically but much lighter and very tough, that is why some types are structurally sound and approved for building. Carbon fibre or Graphite is very light and, with the help of  bracing can be quite strong. The reality is that to achieve the strength of plywood you need a lot of bracing. So it can be light but not resilient. Now you pay your money and take your choice but, even at 70, I would forgo the 2Kg weight saving to know that my cabinet will almost certainly be intact at every gig.

[binky_bass]

As you say, horses for courses etc.

 

But as I understand, the AT cabs are two slices of carbon fibre with a dense filler material between them to re-create the se sonic properties as a wooden cab. I've been using mine for 3 or 4 months and apart from changing the feet for flatter, sturdier ones, I have absolutely no worries about its ability to withstand practice and gigs like any other cab. For me, there are no losses, just a massive gain in the fact its a mere 15kg for a whopping 1200w of power. 

 

But absolutely, horses and courses etc!

[Chienmortbb]

44 minutes ago, binky_bass said:

As you say, horses for courses etc.

 

But as I understand, the AT cabs are two slices of carbon fibre with a dense filler material between them to re-create the se sonic properties as a wooden cab. I've been using mine for 3 or 4 months and apart from changing the feet for flatter, sturdier ones, I have absolutely no worries about its ability to withstand practice and gigs like any other cab. For me, there are no losses, just a massive gain in the fact its a mere 15kg for a whopping 1200w of power. 

 

But absolutely, horses and courses etc!

That's great. I love it when people get the gear they want. However the 410+ is listed as a wooden cabinet on the GR website.

[tauzero]

20 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

That's great. I love it when people get the gear they want. However the 410+ is listed as a wooden cabinet on the GR website.

 

Wrong 410+. It's the AT 410+, like my combo is the AT 800: https://www.grbass.com/portfolio/at-410-plus/ AT = AeroTech.

[binky_bass]

22 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

That's great. I love it when people get the gear they want. However the 410+ is listed as a wooden cabinet on the GR website.

Mine is the GR AT410+ which I can assure you is carbon fibre. Its next to me as I type!

[Downunderwonder]

8 hours ago, binky_bass said:

dense filler material

If the sandwich material would take a screw and hold it there would be a lot more CF in the bass cab world. Sadly a minor knock to a fixture will tear the fixture off when it is screwed on.

 

That sort of 'careless use' isn't so uncommon and accidents happen. In my world the tradeoff for extra super light doesn't overcome my reluctance to have to deal with the fragility.

 

I said it before, in this thread probably, what they should be doing is a plywood baffle, glue on some more substantial puck style feet, and corners.

 

Then you would only have to worry about stray impacts. Carry on the super light theme with a Kevlar slip cover.

[binky_bass]

14 minutes ago, Downunderwonder said:

If the sandwich material would take a screw and hold it there would be a lot more CF in the bass cab world. Sadly a minor knock to a fixture will tear the fixture off when it is screwed on.

 

That sort of 'careless use' isn't so uncommon and accidents happen. In my world the tradeoff for extra super light doesn't overcome my reluctance to have to deal with the fragility.

 

I said it before, in this thread probably, what they should be doing is a plywood baffle, glue on some more substantial puck style feet, and corners.

 

Then you would only have to worry about stray impacts. Carry on the super light theme with a Kevlar slip cover.

'Orses for Corses innit. 

 

I like mine, it does everything I want, so there! 😋

 

My spine likes it too! 

[Hellzero]

Plywood is not light at all !

[Bunion]

7 hours ago, binky_bass said:

Mine is the GR AT410+ which I can assure you is carbon fibre. Its next to me as I type!

I can back that up, I picked it up for him from bass direct I thought they’d handed me an empty box

[bassman7755]

On 20/12/2021 at 10:50, Stub Mandrel said:

 

 

 

To answer in reverse order, I need to have the bass and gain set high enough to get a decent sound (valve preamp) to DI into the PA so turning it down isn't practical.

 

This means I have to use the volume to control levels.

 

For rehearsals, I have the amp set louder as I don't go through the PA.

 

Basically combining a 500W rms amp with a 102dB cab is very loud, so  the practical minimum volume isn't to quiet. I can't get it quiet enough for use at home without using the 10dB pad and rolling back the gain, which is not much help.

 

On reflection, this pub was quite small and it didn't help we had parallel walls about 10 feet apart behind and in front of the left-hand PA speaker. I had a big resonance at A/Bb and that's pretty much exactly the wavelength fto fit between those walls. I think it was partly this resonance making the bass sound too loud.

 

Personally, the right solution would have been for me to not use the PA, or at just to have used one channel of the PA as the left-hand set wasn't doing much. In fact the whole way we were set up was pretty awful but what does a humble bass player know of such things?

 

Pretty poor design if the master volume wont turn fully off. Never come across that in any kit I've ever used. I would think it would be a fairly simple job for a tech to change the pot for one that works better.

[Stub Mandrel]

8 hours ago, bassman7755 said:

 

Pretty poor design if the master volume wont turn fully off. Never come across that in any kit I've ever used. I would think it would be a fairly simple job for a tech to change the pot for one that works better.

 

Opposite issue. You can go totally silent easily, the problem is that it is the area where the volume is low is very small.

 

On the other hand my TE Elf wont turn down to zero at high gains, although it does do very quiet, which is arguably more useful.

[Stub Mandrel]

Hmm  solution would be the one my Brother had on his Fender Deluxe guitar amp. A little gadget with a supplementary volume control and two jack plugs that bridges the post-eq fx send and return.

[Hellzero]

3 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

Hmm  solution would be the one my Brother had on his Fender Deluxe guitar amp. A little gadget with a supplementary volume control and two jack plugs that bridges the post-eq fx send and return.

This is called a master volume...