lowregisterhead Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 Got myself a lovely new Lakland 55-02 just after Christmas. It sits well on a strap, with no neck dive to speak of, but I thought I'd treat myself and upgrade the tuners from the Hipshot licensed ones they come fitted with to USA Ultralites, as Hipshot's website states that I would save as much as 0.06oz per tuner in weight! (Here's a link to the page which then links to specs and weights, for anyone who's interested - https://hipshot.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360020825572-What-s-the-difference-between-Licensed-and-USA-Ultralite-tuning-machines- ) The licensed tuners are perfectly good, but I persuaded myself the higher tolerances and superior materials of the USA tuners would also be worth a splurge, as well as the miniscule overall weight saving. The ones I chose are HB6C (clover head and 1/2" post). Imagine my astonishment when they arrived, I weighed them both, and the USA version was actually 0.05oz HEAVIER than the licensed version. They are actually bang on their stated weight as per the Hipshot spec sheets (1.95oz), but it turns out that at 1.9oz, the licensed tuners I have are 0.11oz underweight, going by their published specs. Now, you could say I shouldn't really be hugely peeved about the weight gain, I mean, spread across all 5 tuners, what's a quarter of a gram between friends? (No drugs references, please 😎) But is it really worth the £120 I just paid for supposed superior engineering? A minor fly in the ointment is the fact the bushes on the licensed tuners are 16mm diameter, but the holes in the headstock are 17.5mm. The bushes on the USA tuners are 17.5mm, so they're a snug fit. It begs the question why the hole is slightly too big for the tuners Lakland fit as standard in the first place, and also why the weight specs on the Hipshot website for the licensed tuners appear to be inaccurate. I even emailed Lakland to see if Hipshot made a special version for them, but they said they use these the HB6 - https://hipshotproducts.com/collections/bass-tuning/products/hb6-1-2-ultralite-licensed-bass-tuning-machine I'm tempted to put the old tuners back in, and stick the USAs up for sale to try and recoup some of my outlay. But let's be honest - does any of this really matter, or am I over-thinking it a tad?!? 😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellzero Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 The annoying thing about Hipshot is that they are under weighting their items. I also weighted the HB6Y (3/8 post, like the Gotoh GB-7) and came to 52 grams for these tuners, when the Gotoh Res-O-Lite GB-350 are really at 40 grams, all included (screw and washer). 12 grams per tuner makes a huge difference. That said, concerning the Hipshot tuners, I had both (Americans and Licensed), but never really noticed any difference between the two interms of weight or quality feel... It's all in the head. 😉 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 What are these oz things of which you speak? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 14 minutes ago, stevie said: What are these oz things of which you speak? Hope this helps. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellzero Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 The imperial measures system, theoretically not used anymore since more than 20 years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowregisterhead Posted January 21, 2020 Author Share Posted January 21, 2020 44 minutes ago, Hellzero said: The imperial measures system, theoretically not used anymore since more than 20 years... What can I say? The Americans refuse to go metric... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 Funny old game, weight measurements. In the current situation I can relate how heavy the items are if described in grams, haven’t got a clue if in ounces. But go that bit heavier and it’s stones/pounds that I understand, clueless on kilos. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Blank Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 45 minutes ago, Lozz196 said: ...clueless on kilos. Is that the sequel to Eyeless in Gaza? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowregisterhead Posted January 22, 2020 Author Share Posted January 22, 2020 10 hours ago, Hellzero said: The imperial measures system, theoretically not used anymore since more than 20 years... 9 hours ago, lowregisterhead said: What can I say? The Americans refuse to go metric... I was watching "Comedians In Cars Getting Coffee" last night (a fairly mindless way to waste 20 minutes, watching Jerry Seinfeld and his buddies back-slapping each other - the real stars are the wonderful classic cars he drives in each episode) and he met the actor Christoph Waltz in a hardware store. Being Austrian, he was quite rightly appalled that you can't buy a tape measure in the US in anything but inches. Heathens. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowregisterhead Posted January 22, 2020 Author Share Posted January 22, 2020 12 hours ago, Hellzero said: The annoying thing about Hipshot is that they are under weighting their items. I also weighted the HB6Y (3/8 post, like the Gotoh GB-7) and came to 52 grams for these tuners, when the Gotoh Res-O-Lite GB-350 are really at 40 grams, all included (screw and washer). 12 grams per tuner makes a huge difference. That said, concerning the Hipshot tuners, I had both (Americans and Licensed), but never really noticed any difference between the two interms of weight or quality feel... It's all in the head. 😉 Yup, you're right, I'm over-thinking it! But perhaps I should have checked the specs on the licensed tuners, and actually weighed one of mine before I ordered the USAs. You live and you learn. Well, you live, anyway. 😉 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 13 hours ago, lowregisterhead said: What can I say? The Americans refuse to go metric... That's about the size of it. I'm old enough to have learned the imperial system at school. 20 hundredweights in a ton, 8 stones in a hundredweight, 14 pounds in a stone, 16 ounces in a pound. So in arithetic we had to do stuff like: Add: 3 tons, 7 hundredweights, 4 stones, 3 pounds, 5 ounces and 6 tons, 5 hundredweights, 2 stones 13 pounds, 12 ounces. And that was before calculators. Still, I'm sure the Americans know what they're doing.😀 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellzero Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 Une coudée, trois lieues et deux lustres. 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowregisterhead Posted January 22, 2020 Author Share Posted January 22, 2020 5 minutes ago, Hellzero said: Une coudée, trois lieues et deux lustres. 😁 A cubit, three leagues and two chandeliers?? That can't be right! 🤣 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FDC484950 Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 IMHO Hipshot Ultralites come into their own as a replacement for classic elephant ear tuners. A set on my Jap P-bass took 360g off the headstock and made a slightly neck heavy bass into one that balances perfectly and now only weighs 3.6Kg. I have a Sterling 5 with the old style MM tuners and a set on here only removed about 200g, but still enough to make a bass with terrible headstock dive tolerable (and you can’t tell from the front). I find it odd that they quote basically the same weight for the Y key as they do for the elephant ear - surely there must be quite a bit more metal in the elephant ear key? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowregisterhead Posted February 2, 2020 Author Share Posted February 2, 2020 On 01/02/2020 at 07:50, FDC484950 said: IMHO Hipshot Ultralites come into their own as a replacement for classic elephant ear tuners. A set on my Jap P-bass took 360g off the headstock and made a slightly neck heavy bass into one that balances perfectly and now only weighs 3.6Kg. I have a Sterling 5 with the old style MM tuners and a set on here only removed about 200g, but still enough to make a bass with terrible headstock dive tolerable (and you can’t tell from the front). I find it odd that they quote basically the same weight for the Y key as they do for the elephant ear - surely there must be quite a bit more metal in the elephant ear key? You'd think so. Could be it's because the Y key is thicker and solid, so overall they're pretty much the same weight. It's always astonished me that any maker can produce a bass with a serious degree of neck dive. I've got another 5 that isn't bad, but could be better, so I'm taking a punt on a set with the 'mini clover' ears, which are quite a bit lighter that the standard Ultralites. They take several weeks to come from the States, so we'll see. My only concern is the dinky heads might look a bit weird! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 If you want to keep the authentic look, Res-o-lites are almost identical to Fenders, but I think they're even lighter than the Hipshots. (I might be wrong on that). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul S Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 G&L do a replacement lightweight tuner as well - a direct fit on my Sterling 5 and, strangely, also a Peavey Foundation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowregisterhead Posted February 2, 2020 Author Share Posted February 2, 2020 3 hours ago, Paul S said: G&L do a replacement lightweight tuner as well - a direct fit on my Sterling 5 and, strangely, also a Peavey Foundation. That's interesting - are they just re-badged Hipshots made for G&L? I would have thought the name 'Ultralite' is patented... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glazenn Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 (edited) I wonder how these newer Sadowsky tuning pegs relate to Hipshot. https://www.thomann.de/gb/sadowsky_bass_tuner_light_1l_c.htm Though they are on the cheap side, I have read they are super heavy (95 to 100 gr), as much as Schaller BM. Edited December 1, 2022 by Glazenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowregisterhead Posted December 2, 2022 Author Share Posted December 2, 2022 16 hours ago, Glazenn said: I wonder how these newer Sadowsky tuning pegs relate to Hipshot. https://www.thomann.de/gb/sadowsky_bass_tuner_light_1l_c.htm Though they are on the cheap side, I have read they are super heavy (95 to 100 gr), as much as Schaller BM. Maybe weight isn't such an important consideration if you like the Sadowsky brand. On the Thomann site it says they weigh 70g, or 81.5g including the sleeve and the screw (why would they list their weight separately?) which is still on the heavy side considering the USA Hipshot half inch post, clover head equivalent is 55g all in. Even Hipshot's licensed version is only a couple of grams heavier than their USA one. They claim their USAs are 'machined, finished and assembled' in the States, apart from the screws, which are ' sourced globally'. It doesn't say where the parts are cast, though. The licensed ones are made in South Korea. Pricewise, the Sadowskys aren't even a good deal really. They work out at £17.20 for a set of 4 including shipping, whereas at Bass Direct the Hipshots start at £16 and £28 each shipped for the licensed and USA respectively, depending on the finish (again based on a set of 4). If you're looking to save weight and money, the Hipshot licensed tuners still win hands down. https://hipshot.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360020825572-What-s-the-difference-between-Licensed-and-USA-Ultralite-tuning-machines- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munurmunuh Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 (edited) On 01/02/2020 at 07:50, FDC484950 said: A set on my Jap P-bass took 360g off the headstock Once this number had sunk in ( 😯 ) I did the rest of the sums. 4 × ultralight at 55g each = 220g. That 220g plus the 360g reduction = 580g previously .... so the fitted tuners were 145g each! Blimey 😳 Is that 145g going to be the typical weight of a tuner on Squier and MIJ p-basses? [As for the metric / imperial insanity: I think of things like tuners in g, whole basses in lb, nut widths in ⅛", neck depths in mm.... 😬 The conversion tool on my phone's calculator gets through a lot of work] Edited December 3, 2022 by Ricky Rioli 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bay Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 10 minutes ago, Ricky Rioli said: Once this number had sunk in ( 😯 ) I did the rest of the sums. 4 × ultralight at 55g each = 220g. That 220g plus the 360g reduction = 580g previously .... so the fitted tuners were 145g each! Blimey 😳 Is that 145g going to be the typical weight of a tuner on Squier and MIJ p-basses? [As for the metric / imperial insanity: I think of things like tuners in grams, whole basses in pounds, nut widths in inches, neck depths in millimetres.... 😬 The conversion tool on my phone's calculator gets through a lot of work] That sounds strange, 145g is a serious weight. Bag and a half of sweets in old money. The density of steel is between 7.5g and 7.8g per square centimetre of my memory serves me right. That would mean they needed to be 20 cubic centimetres of steel! Or a solid chunk 5x2x2cm to put it another way. Do you still have them to check? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munurmunuh Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 16 minutes ago, T-Bay said: That sounds strange, 145g is a serious weight The heaviest I've managed to find a reference to is this, not far off: "Found a nice American Standard P-bass neck made in 1995 that feels and plays great, but weighs a ton because of the tuners. Functionally high quality, but huge and heavy, 123g each" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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