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“Production”


AndyTravis

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I would always employ a producer if I was serious about a project doing well, even just for the external input.  It's often more acceptable for a producer to tell a musician he isn't playing the right part than another band member - internal politics!  Of course, it has to be someone who you know and trust and who has experience of the genre you are recording.  

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1 minute ago, ezbass said:

Fixed 😂

Funnily enough, I wrote musician first... and thought it was a bit too derogatory. We could start a whole thread on lazy musicians and I could spend the rest of my days reporting on it.

Musicians :

Always somebody's else's fault

"You wouldn't know what it's like because you aren't a musician"

"I struggle for my art" (so much I don't get out of bed)

If they worked on their art 9 to 5 like an office job, their level of musicianship would be a lot higher etc etc...

"Poor me, poor me."

 

Anyway, don't get me started. I seem to be surrounded by lazy musicians at the moment and it's really getting me down. Which brings me onto musicians being one of the greatest sectors with mental health problems.

It's no wonder... they are all complete c**ts to each other. All nice to each other faces - but quick to stab each other in the back or attempt to nick each others gigs.

Toxic world. I tread very carefully.

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8 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Funnily enough, I wrote musician first... and thought it was a bit too derogatory. We could start a whole thread on lazy musicians and I could spend the rest of my days reporting on it.

 

Mine was more in jest (thus the emoji) but you make some good and recognisable points, sadly. Sorry @AndyTravis we seemed to have derailed the thread a little.

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13 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Musicians :

Always somebody's else's fault

"You wouldn't know what it's like because you aren't a musician"

"I struggle for my art" (so much I don't get out of bed)

If they worked on their art 9 to 5 like an office job, their level of musicianship would be a lot higher etc etc...

"Poor me, poor me."

I agree with you - I've seen (and been guilty of) plenty of laziness, and - my god - have I ever seen the above martyr complex writ large! But I wonder whether Andy's situation is one part laziness to two parts ignorance. He mentions that the band are all mid-30s upwards (not that this is a problem in itself), but I have observed that the older some musicians get, the more wedded they become to the "old model" of doing things. Their drummer clearly thinks that if they plough time and money into re-recording one of the songs with extra unicorn dust, they'll be able to waft it under the nose of some publicist or booking agent who'll pluck them out of obscurity and make sure the whole world hears and adores them. Which, as plans go, is obviously cobblers.

But then, our drummer insisted that the only reason we weren't already filling stadiums was that "our show wasn't good enough." I don't know if it's coincidence or not, but he was the oldest member of the band; in any case, he believed dogmatically that if we just quit our jobs and toured more intensively, our fortunes would just magically reverse one day, and we'd rolling in it*. He scoffed at the idea that I was making better progress by pushing it to audiences via social media. When I pointed out that I'd sold more CDs that way than we'd at all of our gigs that year, it obviously stung: he grumbled that perhaps we should stop playing live altogether. A few weeks later, he tuned back into the same old channel and was banging on about how it was high time we quit our jobs and hit the road.

It can't just be an age thing, because I know there are plenty of people on here who are older than him and far more savvy about this kind of thing. But it did feel like there was an aspect of Old Dog / New Tricks about it.

 

*Also known in some circles** as "The Underpants Gnomes' business model."

**me, when he was out of earshot

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I think it all boils down to:

Are a band good live (that’s where/how they get fans)

Are the bands songs good/memorable

Does the recorded material do the band justice (does it sound like them, and live can they sound like it)

Are the band aware of the favoured format that said fans would like to buy their recorded material (if they want CDs, focus on vinyl at peril)

Are the band able to sell said recorded material both online and at gigs 

For me if a band can’t manage all of the above, to get success it would have to be extremely fortunate. Getting all of the above still however doesn’t guarantee success.

 

 

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I'm a new Yankee on basschat so if this book has been mentioned forgive me. I recomend it to EVERYONE. "The Indie Band Survival Guide - Randy Chertkow & Jason Feehan - St. Martin's Press NYC $18.99 US 2nd ed. is 2012 I don't know if it's been updated  again but it talks about everything you can do on your own or when you may need help. If any ofthe moderators review this & reccomend mebe it can help some of us thumpers out there

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We've recorded an EP recently with an engineer and no producer. I'm convinced that working with a producer would improve our overall sound, but we decided that putting the money into music vids for each song would provide us with the content we needed for our social streams and allow us to pay for some facebook advertising, and we realised that there's no point in half-heartedly doing anything. £1500 has got us three professional videos but it wouldn't give us the time we might need with a producer.

We're effectively a pub/events band who are writing our own tunes and trying to pivot to originals stuff and we're all around 40. But we post on social at least every other day, have developed relationships with press, radio and festivals and we're looking to put 100% into getting the band going for the next 12 months (around our 9-5s). Part of the success of the band is the songwriting, part is production, part is promotion; you can't neglect any side of it.

Here's our first vid:

 

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22 hours ago, AndyTravis said:

Band recorded a nice EP last summer. 
 

Drummer is now wanting to blame the lack of “production” on the EP as to why it didn’t set the world alight. 

 

I dont know your drummer , but please feel free to forward this on ...  

weasel-of-the-week.jpg

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Some more information came from said drummer separately this morning. Love the bloke dearly, he’s 40 next year - and like me, he’s been close but never “made it”.

I think he feels this is the last chance.

The singers attitude can be off at times - he’s Done more the covers/pub band stuff and he doesn’t really seem to empathise with the “artistry”... he’s a bit more Alpha Male than the rest of us.

Guitarist is lovely, but doesn’t need to strike it lucky as he’s a wealthy chap (a barrister) and I think, while he has a passion for music, he’s not overtly ambitious with it. But he is good at what he does.

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22 hours ago, Crawford13 said:

My band uses a producer at £500 per weekend. There are definitely some positives to it. 
 

1. He gives an outside perspective and helps us fully “finish” songs ie stop changing them every time we rehearse.

2.  The tracks always end up taking a more focussed direction.

3.  There is probably about a 10% difference than the demos we make in our own studio, and most of the band believe it is worth it for the professional “sheen”

I'd be on board with all that. To be honest, besides me, I'm not sure anyone in the band knows specifically what a producer does.

Blue

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6 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

I think the biggest problem, is that most people are fundamentally lazy on that front... whether they are gifted or not in the marketing/sales department.

It's really hard building up relationships that will generate consistent business. We've been at it for 15 years and it's still a battle. Most of our gigs come from "call ins".

Our relationship with The BlondiePop came from our BL hosting open mics there.

Blue

Maple Road

Come out and see us.

January 18th Saturday Night @ The  BLONDIEPOP
225 S 5th Ave West Bend WI
8:00-12:00FB_IMG_1578007121196.jpg.5210fccda72d0aa93decdfbabbf9d659.jpg

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1 minute ago, Bluewine said:

It's really hard building up relationships that will generate consistent business. We've been at it for 15 years and it's still a battle. Most of our gigs come from "call ins".

Our relationship with The BlondiePop came from our BL hosting open mics there.

Blue

Maple Road

Come out and see us.

January 18th Saturday Night @ The  BLONDIEPOP
225 S 5th Ave West Bend WI
8:00-12:00FB_IMG_1578007121196.jpg.5210fccda72d0aa93decdfbabbf9d659.jpg

Great marketing - but bit of a trek for me.

Edited by EBS_freak
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