Squier JV. Your views on this authenticity!

[warwickhunt]

Saw this example on eBay and it is photographed superbly. However, way back when they were first issued I had one of the earliest JVs in the UK and it had a large Fender logo with a small Squire (as opposed to the later large Squire/small fender). I've never known a JV have no reference to Squire on the headstock, am I cracking up?

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/JV-1982-FENDER-62-JAZZ-BASS-squier-GREAT_W0QQitemZ260146137650QQihZ016QQcategoryZ4713QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZVewItem"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/JV-1982-FENDER-62-JA...1QQcmdZViewItem[/url]

[martthebass]

+1 on your comments. I had a '57 P JV 1982, Large Fender + small 'Squier series'. The later ones were Large Squier.

[Bernmeister]

I couldn't get that link to work but try this one

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/JV-1982-FENDER-62-JAZZ-BASS-squier-GREAT_W0QQitemZ260146137650QQihZ016QQcategoryZ4713QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZVewItem"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/JV-1982-FENDER-62-JA...1QQcmdZViewItem[/url]

[warwickhunt]

Funnily enough I couldn't get either link to work but the item number is 260146137650

[Bernmeister]

Ooops
i think the link is too long to work, but looking at the pics
it maybe a jap export model.

On my jv pbass mine has large squier logo with a small by fender logo
unfortunately the previous owner swopped the chrome hardware for black
which included the serial plate too so the only original parts are
the headstock,frets, neck & the body.

But its still a beaut to play

[Musky]

[quote name='Bernmeister' post='41847' date='Aug 6 2007, 10:41 AM']Ooops
i think the link is too long to work, but looking at the pics
it maybe a jap export model.

On my jv pbass mine has large squier logo with a small by fender logo
unfortunately the previous owner swopped the chrome hardware for black
which included the serial plate too so the only original parts are
the headstock,frets, neck & the body.

But its still a beaut to play [/quote]

I think it's the other way round - it's a non export model. Or to put it another way, it's a japanese domestic model - there's no sign of an 'EX' stamp.

[warwickhunt]

Why has he stripped the bass down to the point of removing the machineheads? There's showing a bass in the best possible light and then there's this!

Everytime I look at the close-up of the fingerboard I get the feeling that looks like shoddy fret work and the dings in the fingerboard don't look consistent to the quality of the rest of the bass... I mean those tuners are gleaming!

I have no idea why I'm so attracted/confused by this particular instrument. I mean you couldn't ask for better quality images etc. Is it a case of too good to be true?

[Bernmeister]

Sorry musky, well corrected, thats what i meant to say.

I'm with warwickhunt on some parts of his confusion.

imho, my theory on this judging by the overall condition from the pics posted
is that its been very rarely played for its age, infact its probably been dismantled
& cleaned more times than its been played.

[Delberthot]

This isn't a Squier - it is a Fender Japan bass.

the Japanese Fender basses made between 1982 - 84 also had the JV serial number. The same goes for the SQ models.

As far as the Squier's go - generally a serial number of JV0xxxx has a good chance of having the large Fender, small Squier logo anything from JV1xxxx will be the other way around.

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='Delberthot' post='41982' date='Aug 6 2007, 02:43 PM']This isn't a Squier - it is a Fender Japan bass.

the Japanese Fender basses made between 1982 - 84 also had the JV serial number. The same goes for the SQ models.

As far as the Squier's go - generally a serial number of JV0xxxx has a good chance of having the large Fender, small Squier logo anything from JV1xxxx will be the other way around.[/quote]

I had that niggly feeling that was the case. Hardly surprising he's trying to sell it as a Squier; as one of the very earliest Squiers it would be worth more than a Jap Fender of that period.

[Musky]

There's little difference between a Jap Fender and a Squier from this era, as far as I know, certainly in terms of quality.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I thought Fender Japan were making instruments just before they were made available in the West (specifically Europe, initially). They impressed the head honchos at Fender so much that they were then exported, with a Fender logo for the first series and later with the Squier logo. Domestic Japanese instruments followed suit with the logos.

The most confusing thing in terms of domestic squiers is that they were available in a wider range, and at a variety of price points - although I think that affects guitars more than basses.

The squierjv.info site has a lot of information on JVs, both domestic and export.

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='Musky' post='42351' date='Aug 7 2007, 10:09 AM']There's little difference between a Jap Fender and a Squier from this era, as far as I know, certainly in terms of quality.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I thought Fender Japan were making instruments just before they were made available in the West (specifically Europe, initially). They impressed the head honchos at Fender so much that they were then exported, with a Fender logo for the first series and later with the Squier logo. Domestic Japanese instruments followed suit with the logos.

The most confusing thing in terms of domestic squiers is that they were available in a wider range, and at a variety of price points - although I think that affects guitars more than basses.

The squierjv.info site has a lot of information on JVs, both domestic and export.[/quote]

As you rightly state Musky, common sense dictates that there will be no difference between the Jap 'Fenders' of the day and the first series Squiers, as they were surely made in the same factory by the same employees. However, common sense doesn't apply when applied to the pricing of guitars, especially 'collectors instruments'. As it is, a large Fender/small Squier logo bass is worth more than a genuine Jap Fender from that identical period. Regardless of which is the better player!

[Musky]

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='42361' date='Aug 7 2007, 10:46 AM']As you rightly state Musky, common sense dictates that there will be no difference between the Jap 'Fenders' of the day and the first series Squiers, as they were surely made in the same factory by the same employees. However, common sense doesn't apply when applied to the pricing of guitars, especially 'collectors instruments'. As it is, a large Fender/small Squier logo bass is worth more than a genuine Jap Fender from that identical period. Regardless of which is the better player![/quote]

Ahh, see what you mean. I think these things are still amazing bargains, no matter what it says on the headstock, and I'd go for one over a similar era US Fender (which would likely cost more) every time.

Incidentally, the squierjv.info site now seems to have been moved over to www.21frets.com

[Bassassin]

[quote name='Musky' post='42351' date='Aug 7 2007, 10:09 AM']Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I thought Fender Japan were making instruments just before they were made available in the West (specifically Europe, initially). They impressed the head honchos at Fender so much that they were then exported, with a Fender logo for the first series and later with the Squier logo. Domestic Japanese instruments followed suit with the logos.[/quote]
As far as I know, Fender was sufficiently impressed with the quality of the copy guitars & basses being built by Fuji Gen Gakki (particularly the Ibanez Silver Series) that they decided, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em, and contracted Fuji Gen to build "official" copies. I think they were originally Fender for the Japanese market & Squier for export (just to Europe initially) but I'm quite probably wrong!


Jon.

[Delberthot]

That pretty much hits the nail on the head.

Fender Japan was set up in 1981 and the basses were modeled after the vintage ones - ie the ones that made them the money when the company was first set up. Unfortunately for Fender the Japanese ones were miles better than the US ones.

Fender saw high quality copies coming from this now legendary factory so set about having 'budget' versions of their own range made there - some allegedly using US parts. Ended up being higher quality than the US ones.

Fender bought the Squier string company in the 60s but I think that this was the first time that they used the name anywhere.

i would still rather have a CIJ bass than any MIA or MIM but there aren't that many available direct in this country.

Edited August 7, 2007 by Delberthot

[warwickhunt]

My original query... is it a Fender or Squire?

Technically if this comes from the same factory that Fenders and Squiers were being made in Japan and it says Fender on the headstock surely regardless if it was for the export market or not it is a Fender not a Squire! Added to which, the seller is located in Japan so the bass was never exported, hence it is a MIJ Fender Jazz bass... Yes/No?

[thedontcarebear]

It's a Fender, domestic model, only the exports were called Squier in any way back then.

[Musky]

I guess everyone's thinking along the same lines here - it's a domestic Fender Japan.

Like Warkwickhunt says though, the difference is really just in the logo (and of course any perceived values). Domestic japanese Fenders later went over to Squier logos as well.

[warwickhunt]

The seller appears to be pretty decent, someone asked the question about the JV / Squier bit and he gave a straight answer. Still find it odd that he is justifying that his 'Fender' is as good as a Squire! Oh how times change.

[paul, the]

He's put squier in lower case. Ahhh, simple pleasures.

[warwickhunt]

Ouch! £620 +shipping and taxes! I guess someone bought it for the collectability of Squiers?