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Jool's Hootenanny constructive criticism thread


spectoremg

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11 hours ago, skankdelvar said:

Jools' Hootenanny has been going since 1992. That's 27 years and the show just keeps getting longer. He must have a picture somewhere of a BBC Director General engaging in energetic congress with a donkey.

But let's be positive, oh, yes.

That's a fine list of suggestions. To which I would add:

* Instead of having competing music output on two BBC channels, why not shift it all onto one channel and have a pre-recorded (and more carefully curated) 1 hour Hootenanny without all the chat up till midnight.

From midnight  you'd start The Live Gig and run it to maybe half one. That way we'd be spared that embarrassing hiatus where the live act has to stop the music at 23:55, leave the stage, traipse up a flight of stairs banging fists with the peasants and go out onto a balcony in the cold night air (bad for the pipes), there merely to swap platitudes with some bug-eyed, drooling BBC presenter until the bongs go bong then have to scamper back to the stage and start all over again.

* And make the main midnight gig a freaking huge act rather than those who are (NOI) on the comeback trail

* And someone change that Auld Lang Syne cover for another one. It's getting tedious. Or play Miss Vera Lynn's We'll Meet Again and anyway nobody in the crowd will notice because it's 95% Chinese tourists taking selfies.

* On the (now) spare channel they could run out Where Eagles Dare or 633 Squadron which would entertain the (apparently) geriatric grousers on BC and everybody would be happy apart from those who like sitting through 125 minutes of dross and watching Rowland Rivron soil himself on camera.

I'm sure the Beeb could come up with something better, but I really don't mind Jools and the orchestra running through some classic R and B with some singer or several. 

Led Zeppelin it ain't but then again 1970 it ain't (that was 50 yrs ago)!! 

Your suggestions are played out on late night BBC4 regularly (without Auld Lang Syne). 

Anyone know what the other terrestrial channels did, or that bastion of art (and capitalism), Sky? 

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2 hours ago, drTStingray said:

It's rarely very useful arguing about taste so I'm not going to bother. 

However apart from Melanie (who was clearly struggling and helped by an exceptional band), the artists all performed well, Jools and his orchestra were excellent and the sound was excellent - in fact it was all very positive, which is what you want for a New Year's Eve show. As I have said a couple of times in this thread, the bass was very audible in a TV mix without the need to put it through some hifi arrangement. None of the drum sounds were mixed so loud they sounded like their own orchestra accompanied by everything else (as so much music is these days). 

So for bass players, I don't see what's not to like, unless your musical taste only runs to punk or heavy rock, for instance, of which there was none. 

So I don't see the point of all the moaning - if you didn't like it move on. But for goodness sake, this forum is full of threads full of negativity, usually from the same bunch of people - be it Rickenbacker basses, Jools or whatever. 

Im afraid that trying to express the moaning in a more academic way doesn't cut it for me - it just becomes an argument about taste 😬 clearly mine is a bit broader than many in this forum and I'm willing to accept compromise more willingly - I must say that if I hadn't, I wouldn't have played half of the live music I have over the years. 

More Opinions Police. 

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2 hours ago, drTStingray said:

I'm sure the Beeb could come up with something better, but I really don't mind Jools and the orchestra running through some classic R and B with some singer or several. 

Led Zeppelin it ain't but then again 1970 it ain't (that was 50 yrs ago)!! 

Your suggestions are played out on late night BBC4 regularly (without Auld Lang Syne). 

Anyone know what the other terrestrial channels did, or that bastion of art (and capitalism), Sky? 

The Beeb love to cling on to old crap, Steve Wright's still on R2 FFS! This is the outfit that broadcast a Savile tribute when they had a good idea the poop was about to hit the fan. 

Edited by spectoremg
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The thing that's odd about Later is it hasn't changed format in a million aeons yet over a similar length of time TOTP underwent several incarnations. My main beef about it is less what is included and more about what large swathes of entire  genres are ignored. No electronica or metal for a start, well at least not in a very, very long time.

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31 minutes ago, Barking Spiders said:

The thing that's odd about Later is it hasn't changed format in a million aeons yet over a similar length of time TOTP underwent several incarnations. My main beef about it is less what is included and more about what large swathes of entire  genres are ignored. No electronica or metal for a start, well at least not in a very, very long time.

That valid point's been made before. They accidentally had Courtney Pine on once doing what I'd call a jazz fusion piece which was great. 

The quality also took a nosedive when they moved it out of London. 

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13 minutes ago, spectoremg said:

That valid point's been made before. They accidentally had Courtney Pine on once doing what I'd call a jazz fusion piece which was great. 

The quality also took a nosedive when they moved it out of London. 

Ah, so my points were not valid (in your opinion) - I thought you were complaining about 'thought Police'. Really you just don't agree with me 😉 (which is, of course, ok).

The basic format of many shows doesn't change much for many years - how about X Factor; I'm a Celebrity etc etc etc. I'm afraid I just don't watch them if I don't like them.

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One of the few (recorded) live shows and it gets panned. Each to their own. I tend to pop in and out depending on who is playing. Loved Dakota...timeless live song. Don’t like Stormzy....but that’s a taste issue, he doesn’t need validation from me. Funnily, the highlight was Perfect by Mad Eddie.

Edited by merello
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6 hours ago, drTStingray said:

It's rarely very useful arguing about taste so I'm not going to bother. 

That's fine, I've not been making an argument about taste either. 👍🏻

6 hours ago, drTStingray said:

However apart from Melanie (who was clearly struggling and helped by an exceptional band), the artists all performed well

I didn't watch the whole show (I exercised my right to watch something else, in this case, the local fireworks display on the pier), but from what I did see, Melanie, the 3 ladies (sorry, I don't know the name of their group) and La Roux all sounded (to my ear at least) either flat/pitchy or completely out of tune.

Others were good, I liked the black lady who sung with Jools' band (who I agree, were excellent), Ruby was great (as always) and the Phonics were very polished. And of course, Rick is a legend and should be on TV every day!

The only act who I disliked from a taste perspective was Stormzy, but that's just cos I don't like grime, but none of my criticism has been about him, his music or suitability for the show. 

I disagree about the mix though, in particular with La Roux, where the bassist and guitarist were inaudible on my TV. 

6 hours ago, drTStingray said:

So for bass players, I don't see what's not to like, unless your musical taste only runs to punk or heavy rock, for instance, of which there was none. 

I've made a number of comments about where I think the show is falling down and where it could be improved, as have others. 

Oh, btw, you're making an argument about taste. 

6 hours ago, drTStingray said:

So I don't see the point of all the moaning - if you didn't like it move on. But for goodness sake, this forum is full of threads full of negativity, usually from the same bunch of people - be it Rickenbacker basses, Jools or whatever. 

I've made this point already, this is a thread specifically set up for people on the forum to dicuss the show. In the same way in which a number of commenters are emploring people to not watch it if they don't like it, that freedom is also extended to yourself if you don't like the content of a thread.

6 hours ago, drTStingray said:

Im afraid that trying to express the moaning in a more academic way doesn't cut it for me - it just becomes an argument about taste 😬

Please highlight where I'm making an argument about taste.

This is point #3 you're making about taste though... 

6 hours ago, drTStingray said:

clearly mine is a bit broader than many in this forum and I'm willing to accept compromise more willingly - I must say that if I hadn't, I wouldn't have played half of the live music I have over the years. 

I'm aware that many things, when written, don't come across as intended. I'll be honest, this statement is one of those that really doesn't read or reflect well. 

Oh, it's also your 4th argument based on taste which you weren't going to do... 

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3 hours ago, DoubleOhStephan said:

That's fine, I've not been making an argument about taste either. 👍🏻

I didn't watch the whole show (I exercised my right to watch something else, in this case, the local fireworks display on the pier), but from what I did see, Melanie, the 3 ladies (sorry, I don't know the name of their group) and La Roux all sounded (to my ear at least) either flat/pitchy or completely out of tune.

Others were good, I liked the black lady who sung with Jools' band (who I agree, were excellent), Ruby was great (as always) and the Phonics were very polished. And of course, Rick is a legend and should be on TV every day!

The only act who I disliked from a taste perspective was Stormzy, but that's just cos I don't like grime, but none of my criticism has been about him, his music or suitability for the show. 

I disagree about the mix though, in particular with La Roux, where the bassist and guitarist were inaudible on my TV. 

I've made a number of comments about where I think the show is falling down and where it could be improved, as have others. 

Oh, btw, you're making an argument about taste. 

I've made this point already, this is a thread specifically set up for people on the forum to dicuss the show. In the same way in which a number of commenters are emploring people to not watch it if they don't like it, that freedom is also extended to yourself if you don't like the content of a thread.

Please highlight where I'm making an argument about taste.

This is point #3 you're making about taste though... 

I'm aware that many things, when written, don't come across as intended. I'll be honest, this statement is one of those that really doesn't read or reflect well. 

Oh, it's also your 4th argument based on taste which you weren't going to do... 

I'm pleased to see we are almost in agreement on this. I disagree in some of your analysis regarding taste - but we'll have to agree to disagree. 

My general frustration with this thread (along with several others on the forum, including previous Jools Holland threads) has been the general level of negativity shown towards a live music show. Even if one doesn't like the music, slagging off the musicianship in most cases is really somewhat crass. 

 

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I’ve been giving this a bit of thought and have come to the conclusion that the Hootenanny is a victim of all NYE programming. If you look beyond the musical entertainment broadcast, it’s all just a rehash of the various old codswallop that the broadcasters have been spewing out for years on NYE. It just so happens that this is a forum populated by musicians, so we are always  going to focus on the musical programming provided. Basically, we are all being shortchanged, whatever our entertainment preferences at this time of year. We deserve better, but in reality, it’s a real First World problem.

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2 hours ago, drTStingray said:

we'll have to agree to disagree

👍🏻

2 hours ago, drTStingray said:

My general frustration with this thread (along with several others on the forum, including previous Jools Holland threads) has been the general level of negativity shown towards a live music show. Even if one doesn't like the music, slagging off the musicianship in most cases is really somewhat crass. 

In my view (for reasons laid out in previous posts), the criticism is valid and justified. 

I personally don't think I've slagged anyone off or have been crass so I'll politely decline to comment if you don't mind.

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1 hour ago, DoubleOhStephan said:

👍🏻

In my view (for reasons laid out in previous posts), the criticism is valid and justified. 

I personally don't think I've slagged anyone off or have been crass so I'll politely decline to comment if you don't mind.

I tend not to agree and get the feeling that some people will slag things off if they do not contain their personal favourite hits, as it were.

You have overlooked that I clearly said my objection was to the general negativity of the thread - I don't generally have a problem with anything you've said so there was no need to respond specifically (the guy playing thumb muted style in a band whose name I can't remember, on a natural finished Jazz Bass was audible on my TV though - that style in that setting does possibly require more volume than given - however someone earlier on in the thread dissed the whole show partially on the basis that guy was miming - clearly they've never come across that style of playing before - certainly looked and sounded fine to me!!) 

Edited by drTStingray
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8 minutes ago, drTStingray said:

I tend not to agree and get the feeling that some people will slag things off if they do not contain their personal favourite hits, as it were.

You have overlooked that I clearly said my objection was to the general negativity of the thread - I don't generally have a problem with anything you've said (the guy playing thumb muted style in a band whose name I can't remember, on a natural finished Jazz Bass was audible on my TV though - that style in that setting does possibly require more volume than given - however someone earlier on in the thread dissed the whole show on the basis that guy was miming - clearly they've never come across that style of playing before!!

What a complete asshat. 😄

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3 hours ago, NancyJohnson said:

Who were those three catwaurlering women anyhow?

2 hours ago, steantval said:

They are called Joseph, based in the USA, I would assume they were on tour over here at the time of recording the show.

My thanks to Mr @NancyJohnson and Mr @steantval for bringing illumination to a perplexing conversation I had this morning with my barber Colin,  the proprietor of Hair We Go in North St, Wilton.

As I reclined in the chair with a hot towel wrapped around my face Colin asked me if I'd seen "those three women on the telly on New Years?" Without waiting for an answer Colin continued:

"Common as muck, they were, all dressed up in cheap mens' suits that fitted where they touched. So unflattering. I mean, you could see the size of their thighs. I know it's Christmas, luv, but who needs three pairs of nutcrackers? 

"And the colours? I nearly died! Salmon pink, mustard yellow and a sort of dull Prussian blue? I said to Audrey, Audrey luv,  who's their stylist? Helen Keller? Audrey couldn't hear me, she had her fingers in his ears. The noise they were making I thought the boiler pump bearing had gone again. Right now, ready for your shave, Mr D?"

I had no idea at the time what Colin was talking about but I've watched the vid and now I do.

 

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