CONSERVATOIRE TRAINING

[Spaniel]

Hello, I have been offered a place at a  London conservatoire, to study jazz I play bass  guitar and double bass.

The reality of paying for 4 years of tuition and accommodation is focusing my mind on whether it is worth going.

I play gigs locally with mates and have a good teacher and practice a lot.

I am aware that everyone  I know of who is young and talented is going or already at a conservatoire.I know in the past people just learned on the job so to speak but I am worried that if I don't go I will miss out on connections etc.

What would you advise.also has anyone done this and thought it was great or with hindsight, was it not worth it.Thanks

[ambient]

Do it, you’ll only regret it if you don’t. I did the BMus at ICMP, I graduated in 2015. It really opens your eyes, not only about your playing, but other aspects of music too. I’d never written any music until the second year of the course. We had a composition module, run by a very inspiring tutor. I graduated with a Masters in composition in 2018, I’m now in the second year of my PhD. I’d never have been doing this if I hadn’t studied music. Bear in mind I originally went to improve my bass playing.

[ambient]

You also get to meet other people, networking is vital in a musical career.

[mr4stringz]

You’ll not have the “what if” questions if you don’t give it a go. You likely will if you don’t give it a whirl. Just my opinion obvs but where opportunity knocks it’s worth opening the door, even if you decide thereafter it’s not for you. 

[caitlin]

I flipping hated music school, but on the other hand I'm a weird character and I learned a complete BUCKETLOAD and I have zero regrets about going. The networking is invaluable, or just increasing your chances of being in the right place at the right time and whatnot.

Learn the BUSINESS as much as if not more than your instrument, as many aspects of it as you can.

I work in IT obviously, just because it's so much lazier work than working for a living like what musicians have to.

Hopefully you're minted and have family to fall back on because I only had to pay for one year, 4 makes me feel a little sweaty

[BlueMoon]

9 hours ago, ambient said:

Do it, you’ll only regret it if you don’t. I did the BMus at ICMP, I graduated in 2015. It really opens your eyes, not only about your playing, but other aspects of music too. I’d never written any music until the second year of the course. We had a composition module, run by a very inspiring tutor. I graduated with a Masters in composition in 2018, I’m now in the second year of my PhD. I’d never have been doing this if I hadn’t studied music. Bear in mind I originally went to improve my bass playing.

Welcome Spaniel. @ambient has nailed it with his response IMO. 

Best of luck whatever path you choose.

[Spaniel]

Thanks everyone for the replies. This interesting as the responses say I should go. I read a similar thread on this forum from about 10 years ago which favoured not going, even though it was much cheaper then. 
do you think this indicates the business has changed and it’s now much harder to get on without a conservatoire background. 
Also, about connections. If I study in London and then return home to Yorkshire I assume those connections in London wont be much use in getting gigs up North. 
Any thoughts on this?

[caitlin]

The business is dead mate, but that means the 'business' is YOURS. There's never been greater access to the means of production, but also music has never been so ubiquitous and devalued.

The thing that's for sale now is scarcity, which means 'your thing'. Build a following for what you do and get it to finance you, and write as much stuff as you can for the sync industry because there's loads of money in residuals from that. Recording is advertising, live shows are again the scarcity because they're limited availability.

Connections are connections, they're built over a lifetime, but have to start somewhere. The kids from my year are spread across the world now. Meeting people kick starts things and then the meeting people hopefully won't ever stop. But having people to call on, collaborate with or who will throw opportunities your way is invaluable.

Reputations are built and there's equal parts effort, luck and talent in success. Good luck what ever you do.

[mikel]

Depends what you want out of music. If you like, as you say, playing music with your mates, is it worth the stress and expense? If you want a full time career in music and enjoy the full spectrum of playing then go for it. It is no guarantee of a paying career but would certainly help. There again, as Caitlin said, you could spend the 4 years working on something that makes you "Special", stand out from the crowd in an over populated market. And it wouldn't cost you anything. 

Edited December 24, 2019 by mikel
Adition

[ambient]

50 minutes ago, Spaniel said:

Thanks everyone for the replies. This interesting as the responses say I should go. I read a similar thread on this forum from about 10 years ago which favoured not going, even though it was much cheaper then. 
do you think this indicates the business has changed and it’s now much harder to get on without a conservatoire background. 
Also, about connections. If I study in London and then return home to Yorkshire I assume those connections in London wont be much use in getting gigs up North. 
Any thoughts on this?

With the internet, social media and good transport you can have a career living anywhere.  The last ‘normal bass’ work I did was for a guy I knew from Goldsmiths university who lives in Italy. He sent me files, I sent him files.

London is a very expensive place to live, it’s also not the only place where live music takes place. Leeds, Manchester and Liverpool all have very vibrant music scenes. Steve Lawson moved from London, and now lives near me in the West Midlands. I remember him saying that he’s only two hours from London if he needs to go there. You’re a bit further away, it’s not the other side of the world though.

The thing with studying music, like I said earlier, it’s not all about your instrument. They’ll teach you arranging and composing, music technology and production, I did a teaching qualification in one of my optional modules. The idea is for a career in the music business, not just as a bass player.

[dave moffat]

If you have the opportunity and can afford it then go for it.

Never forget that GOOD music comes from the heart and soul, I've listened to a fair of technically correct modern classical stuff by conservatoire graduates which is utterly soulless. On the other hand a couple of local jammers have put together a song which is f'cking brilliant, one is a chippy and the other is a care assistant.

[fretmeister]

8 minutes ago, dave moffat said:

If you have the opportunity and can afford it then go for it.

Never forget that GOOD music comes from the heart and soul, I've listened to a fair of technically correct modern classical stuff by conservatoire graduates which is utterly soulless. On the other hand a couple of local jammers have put together a song which is f'cking brilliant, one is a chippy and the other is a care assistant.

Those classical people will get a job in music playing works by other people.

[Lozz196]

Great opportunity, seize it.

[MacDaddy]

Do your research on the institute and read the QAA and TEF reports. These should be available on their website.

Student satisfaction is important, but so are employment levels of graduates (if that's where you want to head).

 

[NHM]

Yes, read the QAA and TEF reports by all means but take them with a pinch of salt. Having worked in higher education for 40 years, I know they only tell a small part of the overall story.

The best things about being at a conservatoire will be the intensive teaching, being surrounded by the cream of teaching talent, the connections these people will help you make, and being in a broad pool of similarly-talented and aspirational young musicians. And the resources you will have at your disposal will be unparalleled. London is the best place to be, however attractive other places are. I assume you have been to the college, met some staff and current students, had a tour and passed an audition, so you will have a gut feeling to tell you if you fancy it.

The key to success will be whether you find your tutors and the modules inspirational. If you do, then you will have an incredible learning journey and end up somewhere you couldn't have imagined. If you don't you can always transfer somewhere else or change tack completely. Think of it as a one year financial commitment in the first instance, and see where you are at the end of your first year.

[dave moffat]

18 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

Those classical people will get a job in music playing works by other people.

I hope so, cos there's maybe one piece per concert where I pause from making origami animals with the programmes.

Having said that I really think Spaniel should go for it if they can, and they'll certainly come out of it a totally different person/musician. I would think Jazz is probably immune from dead hand of compositional, technical correctness anyway.

[fretmeister]

12 minutes ago, dave moffat said:

I hope so, cos there's maybe one piece per concert where I pause from making origami animals with the programmes.

Having said that I really think Spaniel should go for it if they can, and they'll certainly come out of it a totally different person/musician. I would think Jazz is probably immune from dead hand of compositional, technical correctness anyway.

Unless you are the name soloist there is no room in an orchestra for anything other than technical correctness. Or at least no room for an interpretation that differs from the instruction of the conductor.

[fihermanmusician]

What an opportunity? Do it! I've just retired (from work). If only something like this had been available when I was choosing a career 50 years back. Then, it was the exclusive royal academy or a military musician career. Nothing in between or as broad as what you can do. Go for it !!

[ambient]

Have you considered Leeds college of music? They have a great jazz course there, it’s got a great reputation and brilliant facilities. A friend of mine did his MMus there.

[CamdenRob]

Sounds like a great opportunity to me, but I’d have to say from the perspective of something fun to do, rather than increasing chances for employment in any great way 😕

Music (playing) is a ludicrously difficult industry in which to make a living... The issue is it’s great fun, so a whole host of people will do it for nothing. That said having the kind of skills it sounds like you would get from this course would stand you in good stead for orchestra work etc. Pop music work is mostly how you look as opposed to how you play, and I imagine you already have the required technical standard for that.

Id say if you have the time and the money do it, it would be great fun (I would), but I wouldn’t expect a career at the other end of it. There are people who buck the trend obviously, but generally people just don’t buy music anymore in anywhere near large enough numbers to make playing an instrument a viable career choice.

My job is s*it and no one in there right mind would do it for nothing, hence it’s not massively competitive and they have to pay me a reasonable amount for it 😕

Edited December 24, 2019 by CamdenRob

[BassTractor]

2 hours ago, fretmeister said:

Those classical people will get a job in music playing works by other people.

Not necessarily, as my life exemplifies. Live, I've played more with jazz ensembles than with any classical ones, and all of that was because of my studying classical music, and meeting people at music college.

[Bilbo]

I can't offer anything meaningful in terms of advice but would just add that the qualification you end up with may allow you to teach at colleges or schools later in life which may be some thing vitally important to sustaining yourself financially when 'stardom' fails to materialise. It will also look good on your CV if you teach privately. I play with loads of musicians who have and who have not attended universities etc. Are they better than me? Mostly. Am I, nevertheless, sharing the stage with them? Yes. I find that a conservatory education doesn't guarantee anything in terms of your potential and I have played with plenty of people with music degrees who I would never book on a gig. I do, however, think there is a lot to be said for the total immersion in music that the opportunity would bring. I would love to have had the opportunity when I was younger. In the end, it's your call.

[Bassfinger]

Go for it.  I kind of regret hankering for adventure and joining the Army instead of Uni, and had to work twice as hard getting my Masters in later life (not in music) and it did eventually lead to a well paid career.  You've gotta be in it to win it.

[dave moffat]

4 hours ago, fretmeister said:

Unless you are the name soloist there is no room in an orchestra for anything other than technical correctness. Or at least no room for an interpretation that differs from the instruction of the conductor.

Agreed. I obviously didn't express myself very well so I'll try again it wasn't the musicians/arrangement, rather the original composition. The conductor and musicians can only do so much. I'm really struggling to communicate what I mean but it goes beyond music let alone any particular genre.

[FDC484950]

I did exactly what you’re thinking of doing - just under 25 years ago. It was just when the large London studios were scaling right back and the smaller ones were closing. In the end I got some work. A bit of radio, TV and the odd film (playing at CTS Wembley with a full orchestra was something else!) - but even then the opportunities for instrumentalists was very much on the wane. Without teaching or some other music related service work I’d struggle to see how anyone can make any sort of living playing an instrument - and with the advent of YouTube and online lessons even teaching isn’t what it once was.

Don’t lose heart though - if you can really play, read and have sufficient breadth of experience, know when to keep quiet, have or can get the right contacts and look the part (which has never been more important) then there are still chances. Be prepared to play some absolute crap and live on scraps and have reliable and versatile, quiet and well-maintained gear. 
 

The very best of luck!