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3 minutes ago, Muppet said:

So I’m running a Sennheiser EW IEM G4 (channel 38 version) with UE6s for the last couple of years with my band. I’m now playing with an additional band that is playing music venues where PA etc is all provided. Clearly I’m going to want to take my system with me and use it.  What do I need to do/tell the venues in advance so I’m not mugged off with using the floor monitors…?

Tell them that you want an aux (or pair of auxes) on XLRs run to wherever you are on the stage. Of if they haven't got the means to do that, you'll have to give them the transmitter and they'll babysit that from the desk (at least they can see they aren't overloading it then).

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10 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Tell them that you want an aux (or pair of auxes) on XLRs run to wherever you are on the stage. Of if they haven't got the means to do that, you'll have to give them the transmitter and they'll babysit that from the desk (at least they can see they aren't overloading it then).

Perfect thats brilliant, thanks. I have to write a tech spec so I will add that in

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https://xvive.com/audio/product/u4-in-ear-monitor-wireless-system/

 

Have spotted these recently in terms of IEM transmitters. Wondering whether anyones tried them? 

 

Using an X32R, me straight wired into that nowadays with a EBS Microbass DI pre. Think latency will be an issue? It's saying it's about 5ms on the Xvive, plus whatever the X32R is doing. 

 

@EBS_freak is it worth a crack to get above the cheap LD Systems I've been using for a while? Have gone wired with the P1 recently and like that but it's a phaff having an extra lead strapped to me.

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19 minutes ago, tonyf said:

https://xvive.com/audio/product/u4-in-ear-monitor-wireless-system/

 

Have spotted these recently in terms of IEM transmitters. Wondering whether anyones tried them? 

 

My GF/ singer has that. Seems ok, although the first set failed within a few months. Second set seems fine so far. Obviously very basic but it works for her. 

There are a few threads on here discussing them. 

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57 minutes ago, tonyf said:

https://xvive.com/audio/product/u4-in-ear-monitor-wireless-system/

 

Have spotted these recently in terms of IEM transmitters. Wondering whether anyones tried them? 

 

Using an X32R, me straight wired into that nowadays with a EBS Microbass DI pre. Think latency will be an issue? It's saying it's about 5ms on the Xvive, plus whatever the X32R is doing. 

 

@EBS_freak is it worth a crack to get above the cheap LD Systems I've been using for a while? Have gone wired with the P1 recently and like that but it's a phaff having an extra lead strapped to me.

Seems a shame to run in mono if you have a X32…. You could always run two… with each half doing one side of each of your IEMs. If you are already running mono, no great shakes.

 

The gotchas are obviously the cumulative latency. With your wireless bass (what are you using nowadays?) helix (or whatever digital pedals you currently have on your board), x32 and xvive, you could be hitting some high latency figures. You may feel the delay in your playing to what you are hearing.

 

You probably have heard the improvement that the P1 gives you over the LD… and going digital will give you that more wired sound for cheaper than the ew300 and psm900 but it’s all academic if there’s too much latency there.

 

Let’s figure out what you got - tell me your signal chain.

 

 

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15 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

Let’s figure out what you got - tell me your signal chain.

 

 

Not using the Helix anymore, just going 'bareback' from the bass into the EBS Microbass then straight into the X32R via a guitar lead. May use the Sony DWZ-B30GB wireless but probably not likely if it impacts latency. Looking at the specs on the Sony... Narrow band mode: Approx. 3 ms / Wide band mode: Approx. 6 ms   

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Posted (edited)

X32 is about 1ms (actually 0.83ms but lets call it 1)

Narrow band Sony, 3ms.

Xvive 5ms.

 

Cumulative 9ms. Pro world, 7ms is the target upper limit. You'd have to try to see if you can "feel" the delay.

 

Of course, the other thing that I don't particularly like, is that it's on the 2.4 ghz range, which means it could be prone to interference in areas where there's quite a high presence of wifi services.

 

If you are on the want and want to go digital... it may be worth investigating the MI-58 - https://www.mipro.com.tw/webls-en-us/iem.html - it's got sub 3 milisecond latency. I've not tried one of these yet - but it could be a better recommendation than the EW300 if you have that kind of money to spend. Stereo, digital, low-ish latency, great dynamic range (plus Dante on the pro version - which I know most people here won't be interested in) - and on 5.8Ghz. Build quality reputably great too. On paper, it's wicked. I just haven't been able to get to try one. Only thing I don't like, is battery choice... but at least it's replaceable.

 

Yes. I want one.

Edited by EBS_freak
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I recently bought a pair of KZ ZS10 pro IEMs.  I went for the gold one both in ear and visible side - a bit of ear bling without needing a piercing 😀.  They had their 1st outing on Sunday at Church.  I thought they worked really well.  They were reasonably comfortable for the duration of the rehearsal and service - I guess I wore them for about 2h over a 2.5h period, but wouldn’t have wanted them in for much longer. A few things I learned that might help fellow newbies:

 

I’d turned the stage bass amp on pre rehearsal to balance the volume levels of my 2 basses (I was using a fretless for 1 of the songs).  I forgot to turn it off (or down) once I’d finished.  So not a silent stage, but it was funny watching the drummer trying to work out why he was getting too much bass. I think the learning point is to turn down (or off) the bass amp rather than having a laugh at the drummer.

 

In rehearsal I’d run the IEM cable through the bass strap.  When I went for the bass change I knocked the IEMs out and it took me most of the song to get them back in.  I later noted the guitarist unplugged his IEMs at the extension cable when he took his guitar off.  In the service I ran the cable outside the bass strap and unplugged at the extension cable.  It wasn’t a slick change, but it was better and I was ready to go at the beginning of the song.

 

The cable that comes with the KZ ZS10s isn’t long enough for on stage monitoring (1.2m I think).  I managed to blag a short one from my son’s electric drum kit but was still shy of 2m.  I’ve bought an extension (also in gold bling on both the female end and the chord wrap 😊).  I think the supplied cable may be long enough if you are using a headphone amp on your waist - I wasn’t (see below) and I’m medium height (1.74m).  I was trapped with the short chord both during songs and when not playing - the singer was very gracious about me barking requests at her “can you get my water please?”, “can you get the sound guys to give me a mic so I can talk to the drummer and leader?” 

 

We each have individual mixers: Allen & Heath ME-1, so I didn’t need a headphone amp. It also meant I could pan the instruments and singers to where they were left and right of me - that worked well.  I didn’t get any ambient , so the atmosphere felt a bit dead - I only found out where the ambient was on the mixer at the end of the service, so something to have a play with next time.

 

Hopefully this is helpful to someone.

Edited by Simon C
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  • 1 month later...

I've hummed and hawed about the IEM thing for years and as with everyone else I had the nagging feeling I was going to 'lose something'.  Well I bit the bullet and bought the KZ ZS10 pro IEMs this week (following @EBS_freak 's recommendation for introduction to IEM) and last night was my in at the deep end moment!  

 

I bought the IEM with the view to trialing the guitarists spare (as he has moved away from IEM) XVive transmitter/receiver.  Turned up to a lively small pub gig I was familiar with (always good for trialing something) to find that the band area was reduced by 1/2 and we could barely fit the THREE of us in without cabs.  Time to ditch my idea of running my amp/cab + my IEM + my vocal monitor, I also ditched my bass wireless gear as it was one less thing to potentially go wrong/worry over.  :/ 

Long story short: bass > Sansamp > PA  //  PA send > splitter A+B > A = XVive to IEM. B = vocal monitor (essentially for drummer).  I also had my vocal mic going to the desk to be sent to the Aux send for IEM+Monitor.

 

Well it worked... I think!  

 

It was a bit fraught as I needed to get the FOH sound sorted (we mix ourselves and leave it set as is) + my balance in my IEM + the drummer hearing me.  I wasn't convinced that I got a great mix but I was pleasantly surprised that my vocal mic gave me an ambient sound when I wasn't singing (backing vocals), so I could hear the guitarist/vocalist and the drummer... and some of the audience!  

 

I'm really not convinced that I need the vocal monitor as the drummer seemed to think he got enough bass from the FOH, so I may ditch that, especially as my IEM give me exactly the same mix from the splitter.

 

This post is more a 'Here's how it went for me' post but have I missed anything that I could improve on or what could my next steps be?  Obviously I may upgrade the KZ ZS10 pro and I will need to buy a transmitter/receiver (anything in the XVive price range to consider?) but as a novice have I omitted anything.  

 

I should add that the guitarist doesn't use backline but instead goes AXEFX > PA > floor wedge monitor.  He used to use IEM AND wedge but ditched the IEM (he does wear plugs to prevent damage).

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1 hour ago, warwickhunt said:

 

Bog standard 12 ch 2 aux type analogue desk (vocalist owns it so no idea of make).  What were you thinking?

Just trying to figure out how you can maximise your system.

 

Being analogue with only 2 auxes, you are quite limited in terms of what you can do IEM wise. You've probably figured out that you can only have two mono mixes - or one stereo IEM (albeit a bit difficult to set up due to there being two gains as opposed to two gains and a pan for each channel sending to that pseudo stereo aux bus).

 

You are pretty much at the limits of your system unless you change your desk. Ideally, if you change your desk, you'd get access to EQ on a stereo bus, with compressor. Being able to roll off the bottom end is would tighten up your mix for sure.

 

Upgrading your IEMs are always a good move (if you are keen about this, invest in good customs).

 

Wireless/Wireless - stick with wired unless you can get a good wireless system. XVive will do you OK with an analogue desk - but obviously are limited to mono. Being able to run stereo IEMs is a MASSIVE upgrade. So if you are looking at spending money, don't go down the high latency, mono route if ultimately you are going to have a digital desk and want to run stereo IEMs (unless you are prepared to lose the money on the XVives)

 

In order for your band to sound better in smaller venues, it's best to get everybody on IEMs and drop those volumes. In order to do that, you'll want everybody to be on IEMs and not on a shared mix. So if you wanted my "next steps" thing, it's to get everybody to buy into the IEM route and get the desk upgraded to something digitial with more auxes. You'll have access to much much better DSP - giving you a lot more scope for notching out reverb, more options in terms of compression and fx... and of course, the opportunity to mix everything remotely.

 

Get talking to your band mates!

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Cheers for that, informative and glad that it confirms what I thought.  

 

TBH we play small > medium size venues and my main gripe has been that we are just too loud on stage (even with me wearing custom molded attenuated plugs) and before you ask; no turning down is not really an option!  :/  Drummer is old school loud (kick and snare through FOH), guitarist/vocalist was running IEM (found them uncomfortable but does wear ear protection) AND an RCF PA cab/monitor (guitar through FOH), now just the monitor.  I was running my backline as only sound source (rarely PA support) but competing with drums and guitar back through monitor on stage.  

 

Going forward unless we do all go IEM and upgraded desk, I'm going to have to take my vocal monitor (Mackie SRM350) for the drummer to get bass unless he hears it from FOH.  We use RCF 715s for PA but wondering if it would be wasted getting a (small) active sub to assist bass... though I have a niggly feeling it would add very little that the RCFs already manage.

 

Yes, time to talk desk (with guitarist/vocalist) and IEM (with drummer).  ;)

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  • 3 weeks later...

Having previously owned the Shure se215, and se535, I recently upgraded to the se845.

 

Wow, what a difference! Incredible reproduction of bass guitar as well as a soundstage far in excess of the other models. 
 

Quite the price jump but if you can justify it then I think it’s worth it. 

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SE846 via DV247 - £689

UE6 via Custom IEM company - £615

 

Whats a second hand value of 846s? Looking on ebay, since the start of the year, prices have ranged from 235-580 with the average price realistically being around £400.

 

Get saving for the UE6s. My mate (MD for the book of Mormon has just gone UE6 - he was previously on 846s (main pair and a spare) and is cursing because like many, he worked up through the Shure range up to the 846s. He wished he just pooled his money from the start to get a couple of pairs of customs. He said to me when spoke to me after the first gig he did on the customs - "infinitely better than the 846s and if the UE6s are this good, I can only imagine where the higher priced stuff gets me".

 

It's all nice stuff to have, but seriously, gun for that UE6, worth every penny.   

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14 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

SE846 via DV247 - £689

UE6 via Custom IEM company - £615

 

Whats a second hand value of 846s? Looking on ebay, since the start of the year, prices have ranged from 235-580 with the average price realistically being around £400.

 

Get saving for the UE6s. My mate (MD for the book of Mormon has just gone UE6 - he was previously on 846s (main pair and a spare) and is cursing because like many, he worked up through the Shure range up to the 846s. He wished he just pooled his money from the start to get a couple of pairs of customs. He said to me when spoke to me after the first gig he did on the customs - "infinitely better than the 846s and if the UE6s are this good, I can only imagine where the higher priced stuff gets me".

 

It's all nice stuff to have, but seriously, gun for that UE6, worth every penny.   

Thanks man, can I ask what you'd recommend after the UE6?

 

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13 hours ago, dand666 said:

Thanks man, can I ask what you'd recommend after the UE6?

 

As in more expensive or less expensive. Less expensive is tricky, I wouldn’t recommend anything less than a UE6 for bass.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Used earphones for the first time in a band context last night. The drummer in that band has started using them so I thought why not try it.

I already had the little Behringer headphone amp thingy (which I use for silent rehearsal), and the Backbeat for 8x10 simulation. 

My thoughts: Without the Backbeat, forget it. With it, great. The earphones produced a more middle to top mix, which was easier to hear clearly what I was playing, but I need that thump to remind me I'm a bass player.

You really need everything going through the mixer for it to work at all so in other bands it would be a massive headache to set up, but in a three piece, simple. 

Biggest plus was no amp or cab to carry up and down stairs. So for rehearsals or really difficult load in gigs, in a small band, I'm a convert.

Obviously you won't separate me from my Barefaced cabs any time soon, but as a rehearsal tool, it's a good idea.

Oh, and my BVs are way better than I ever imagined. Now I can hear them that is .

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