missis sumner Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 Song in question is Johnny B. Goode. Does "short 12 bar blues" mean anything to anyone? My band leader was trying to explain this last night... but I'm sceptical. As I understand it, he doesn't want me to go "all the way up" and start the second bar on the octave and work down - he wants me to play a repeat of the first bar. I understand the Marty McFly version is a little like this, but he didn't tell me this is the version he wanted when I f*ing learnt the song... After asking me which finger I use to pluck the string, he also told me most bassists use their second finger only... I'll leave that one with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missis sumner Posted December 11, 2019 Author Share Posted December 11, 2019 1 minute ago, hiram.k.hackenbacker said: Yeah, I would have used my second finger alright - upwards in his direction. I did that. I sat there with my second finger extended and said quite innocently "I use my index finger, mostly, because this one doesn't bend." (I had an accident when I was young, and it honestly doesn't bend 😂) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassfinger Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) Just to upset him I'd have whipped out my trusty pick. Edited December 11, 2019 by Bassfinger 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missis sumner Posted December 11, 2019 Author Share Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, hiram.k.hackenbacker said: So you have to play with just your index finger on your plucking hand? Or do you use your third finger as well? I can use all three, I just favour my index if the tempo/style/sound dictates. Oh, and I can use a pick as well, but only downstrokes because "alternate up and down picking is really bad, especially for a bass player"... Edit: Obviously, there is a slight difference in tone/attack between my index and second finger - but in most songs I don't notice. Edited December 11, 2019 by missis sumner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykesbass Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 Getting back to the Short 12 Bar, no never heard that, but understand what you are describing. If anything, a short walk. I'd suggest he takes a long one, off a short pier! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missis sumner Posted December 11, 2019 Author Share Posted December 11, 2019 Isn't the intro (on the film version) a little variation where it starts on the I (not sue how many bars), but then goes IV, IV, I, I, V, IV, I (instead of bars IV, IV, I, I, V, V, I)... Sorry, don't know myself if that makes sense? A bit like last night really. Oh, and I'm not allowed to count bars - "you should just feel it"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) 47 minutes ago, missis sumner said: After asking me which finger I use to pluck the string, he also told me most bassists use their second finger only... I'll leave that one with you. I would be using the second finger, but not for playing the bass. Ah, I see Hiram beat me to it. In that case, ask your man if the name 'James Jamerson' means anything to him. Edited December 11, 2019 by pete.young 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missis sumner Posted December 11, 2019 Author Share Posted December 11, 2019 Think I might put my foot down and insist on the original 12 bar version... it is my birthday do we're practicing for, after all! 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) 59 minutes ago, missis sumner said: Song in question is Johnny B. Goode. Does "short 12 bar blues" mean anything to anyone? My band leader was trying to explain this last night... but I'm sceptical. As I understand it, he doesn't want me to go "all the way up" and start the second bar on the octave and work down - he wants me to play a repeat of the first bar. I understand the Marty McFly version is a little like this, but he didn't tell me this is the version he wanted when I f*ing learnt the song... After asking me which finger I use to pluck the string, he also told me most bassists use their second finger only... I'll leave that one with you. First of all, I have played the blues circuit quite extensively and I really have no idea what a "short 12 bar blues" means! Now, what he COULD mean! Sometimes you may hear someone say they want to play a ‘quick change’ i.e. change to the IV chord in bar two. This would mean (for example, in the key of A) to play one bar of A, one bar of D, then two bars of A before the change to D rather than just four bars of A before moving to the IV chord (in this case D),. They could also say ‘in from the IV’ (i.e. play an 8 bar intro starting on the D before you get into the normal 12 bar) - similar to your subsequent post above) or ‘in from the V’ (play a 4 bar intro starting on the E). I’m guessing that you’re right in that he may well want you to play a repeat of the first bar, rather than walk up to the octave then walk back again. As far as ‘most bassists use their second finger only’, well that is just nonsense. When I am recording, I will often play short passages of quarter notes or 8 notes (at a reasonably slow tempo) with just one finger, in my case, my index finger. This is just to ensure consistency of tone and attack of each note to tape. To be frank, I would never play this way live. I hope that this may help in some way. Unfortunately, some people pick up a bit of the lingo without really understanding it properly and inevitably, get it wrong. Good luck… Edited December 11, 2019 by peteb 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missis sumner Posted December 11, 2019 Author Share Posted December 11, 2019 Just now, hiram.k.hackenbacker said: It's your birthday and he's telling you what to play? Mmm. Hope it goes well for you. Got a feeling it probably won't. It's more the rhythm guitarist's 60th than my, errhhhmmm, birthday (closer to his birthday than mine, and his is bigger), but we all agreed we would do this at the beginning of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) And remember, Johnny B Goode stays on the V chord for two bars (rather than one bar of V, followed by one bar of IV) before resolving back to the I for two bars. Edited December 11, 2019 by peteb 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missis sumner Posted December 11, 2019 Author Share Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, peteb said: And remember, Johnny B Goode stays on the V chord for two bars (rather than one bar of V, followed by one bar of IV) before resolving back to the I for two bars. That's what I heard - in the original, but then "Chuck Berry was sh*t when he started out"... Edited December 11, 2019 by missis sumner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 Just now, missis sumner said: That's what I heard - in the original, but then "Chuck Berry was stinky poo when he started out"... I'm not so sure about that! Certainly when he got older, ol' Chuck wasn't too fussy about when the changes happened or what key he was in at any particular time, but when he started out he was laying it all down for everyone else to follow... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newfoundfreedom Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 We used to play this, and the conclusion was, there are so many different variations of the song, due in part to Chuck using different session musicians rather than his own backing band, that there really was no such thing as an "original" way to play it. I used to play it as straight 12 bar, and it sounded fine to me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 Sounds like the band leader is telling you he wants a short change, ie up to the 4th for the second bar. A long change would stay on the root for 4 bars before moving to the 4th. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 31 minutes ago, Newfoundfreedom said: We used to play this, and the conclusion was, there are so many different variations of the song, due in part to Chuck using different session musicians rather than his own backing band, that there really was no such thing as an "original" way to play it. I used to play it as straight 12 bar, and it sounded fine to me. From what I've heard, it was more to do with what he fancied playing on any given night rather than whatever pickup band (cheapest guys available rather than 'session' musicians) was on the bandstand. I'm sure that whoever was playing with him would know the song perfectly well, but just had to follow the great man and what he decided to play. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Bassy Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 Play the Johhny Winter version. My favourite by far. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertbass Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 I wouldn't play it at all. Hate it with a vengeance!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_lefty Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 Ever since my audition for my current band I've always played it double time using two fingers. Fast and furious is the only way I want to play this song. I dont think I'd get on with your band leader. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil.c60 Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 "And I'm not allowed to count bars I should just feel it" - that'll be yet another guitarist who can't count and has no sense of timing expecting everyone else to fit in around him then. And it's goodnight from me. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missis sumner Posted December 12, 2019 Author Share Posted December 12, 2019 36 minutes ago, phil.c60 said: "And I'm not allowed to count bars I should just feel it" - that'll be yet another guitarist who can't count and has no sense of timing expecting everyone else to fit in around him then. And it's goodnight from me. And then the next time we practice, he'll say I should know the song... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 I always thought that a short 12-bar blues was an 11-bar blues. Sorry. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teebs Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 11 hours ago, missis sumner said: My band leader ... ... is an idiot! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek99 Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 52 minutes ago, missis sumner said: And then the next time we practice, he'll say I should know the song... Tell him to go and f&@k himself 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek99 Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 There are 8 bar variants. That’s what I understand to be a “short 12 bar” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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