Ammoon Wireless System

[Stub Mandrel]

Saw this discussed on a thread somewhere... arrived today, charged up quickly and very easy to use. I can't detect any change in tone on my practice amp. Very nicely presented and ridiculously cheap. It's lovely practising at home without a lead, even if I don't use it in anger!

Roughly how long does a charge last and are there any things/situations to avoid?

 

[stewblack]

7 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

Saw this discussed on a thread somewhere... arrived today, charged up quickly and very easy to use. I can't detect any change in tone on my practice amp. Very nicely presented and ridiculously cheap. It's lovely practising at home without a lead, even if I don't use it in anger!

Roughly how long does a charge last and are there any things/situations to avoid?

 

Charge should be a good few hours but time will tell! Omnly problems i've encountered was when my keys player used one it interfered with my Line 6 wireless but I'm sure we could easily have changed channels. Ammoon is just another one of those cut price brands which are hard to fault.

Enjoy!

[Maude]

I've found that the charge lasted for two two-hour rehearsals. No noticeable change in tone or volume but very slight latency issue. If, without playing a line, you just do one sharp pop you can hear the string slap the frets a fraction before the amplified note. I don't slap and only play a few octave pops in the Specials tunes and I don't think it will be an issue live, certainly not an issue with my normal playing in rehearsal. 

Works well on electric and doublebass. 

I'm going to gig with them tomorrow and see how it goes, I'll have a lead laying by my pedal just in case. 

🙂

[Stub Mandrel]

1 hour ago, Maude said:

I'll have a lead laying by my pedal just in case.

That's my thought. I'm going to use for rehearsals (TBH we are unlikely to be gigging before late January).

[Paul S]

My cunning plan is to have this connecting my pedal board, such as it is, with the amp leaving me with the Boss between bass and board and NO LEADS to trip over!    I haven't tried it yet and can envisage all sorts of things going wrong - may have to start half a beat ahead of the others to be time...

[Maude]

3 minutes ago, Paul S said:

My cunning plan is to have this connecting my pedal board, such as it is, with the amp leaving me with the Boss between bass and board and NO LEADS to trip over!    I haven't tried it yet and can envisage all sorts of things going wrong - may have to start half a beat ahead of the others to be time...

I actually thought along those lines as I connected my board to my amp last night. I could buy another pair to do as you suggest but I'm sure latency would become a major problem. 

On the plus side I might be in time with our guitarist then 😁

[Woodinblack]

I have used it for over 3 hours, and it was still going, but I tend to just charge it before every practice, and it hasn't failed at any yet

[Maude]

24 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

I have used it for over 3 hours, and it was still going, but I tend to just charge it before every practice, and it hasn't failed at any yet

Yes that's what I'll do. I just kept using them until they died just to see. 

I haven't tested the range yet, I might go out front tomorrow during sound check to see. 

I'll go for a............ 

[Stub Mandrel]

Funnily enough it went completely dead about ten minutes ago! I left it switched on without using if but not sure for how long... so charging up again. the one worrying thing is it just stopped - there one moment, next moment sound off, light out!

Not worried about latency - if I can hear anything it's barely audible. All my digital effects are old-school use the dry signal  (chorus, flange, delay) as well as the digitised one so they won't add latency.

I understand it's when you use fully digital processing that the latency starts to add up.

[Maude]

Yeah there's no warning when they run out. I was hoping maybe the light would go red for bit before so you knew you were on borrowed time but a two hour gig on full charge should be fine. 

[Stub Mandrel]

I notice it was  the transmitter that went flat, which makes sense as its doing more work.

[Maude]

Yes transmitter went first. 

[Maude]

Used it for a gig on Saturday. No issues with dropping out or interference, no change in volume or tone that I noticed, but, I think the latency might be an issue. A couple of times I had a feeling of being out of time even I though I was playing in time, Mirror in the Bathroom was a particular struggle, and another but, I wasn't 'feeling it' at Saturdays gig, I don't know why but it could've been me and not the wireless. No gig next weekend but we've got two the following week so I'll persevere and see how it goes. 

Edited December 23, 2019 by Maude

[Stub Mandrel]

19 minutes ago, Maude said:

Used it for a gig on Saturday. No issues with dropping out or interference, no change in volume or tone that I noticed, but, I think the latency might be an issue. A couple of times I had a feeling of being out of time even I felt I was playing in time, Mirror in the Bathroom was a particular struggle, and another but, I wasn't 'feeling it' at Saturdays gig, I don't know why but it could've been me and not the wireless. No gig next weekend but we've got two the following week so I'll persevere and see how it goes. 

Do you use any digital effects with it?

[Maude]

Only a Line6 X3 so it should only act as one pedal I assume. Like I said it could've just been me not quite being on it. Mirror in the Bathroom is pretty fast so will feel off if not tight. The gig was shite so we'll see how the next two are as they will be good enjoyable gigs. 

[Maude]

Hmm, I sad to say I think I'm back on a lead.

I've had two rehearsals (two different bands) since the aforementioned gig. On electric, through the Line6 X3 the latency is noticeable, in this band there's quite a lot of fast staccato playing and it doesn't feel right, back to a lead and all is well. 

The second band, playing doublebass and I think it's OK, but I was just going from bass straight to amp, albeit through the Ammoon. I could be because the note blooms and develops more on a DB than my style of EB playing. In a gig situation I'll be running through a tuner, BBE pre-amp and F-Deck HPF so the latency could be a problem still. 

Nevermind, they're still handy for at home. 

[Stub Mandrel]

6 hours ago, Maude said:

Hmm, I sad to say I think I'm back on a lead.

I've had two rehearsals (two different bands) since the aforementioned gig. On electric, through the Line6 X3 the latency is noticeable, in this band there's quite a lot of fast staccato playing and it doesn't feel right, back to a lead and all is well. 

The second band, playing doublebass and I think it's OK, but I was just going from bass straight to amp, albeit through the Ammoon. I could be because the note blooms and develops more on a DB than my style of EB playing. In a gig situation I'll be running through a tuner, BBE pre-amp and F-Deck HPF so the latency could be a problem still. 

Nevermind, they're still handy for at home. 

Interesting, I didn't have problems today, first time using it at a rehearsal, but I had some other minor irritations.

The X3 seems to be low latency at only 1.5ms if you don't use it with anything else.

At some point I'll set up mine with a dual trace scope and measure the latency accurately.

[donkelley]

so, summarizing what I'm reading here (I haven't tried it myself), the ammoon wireless maybe also is very low latency, but coupled with a couple other digital effects with each very low latency ends up with audible latency.... that's just not ok.

 

I wonder how many other wireless systems have latency that, when combined with a couple of digital effects, result in an audible latency issue?

Edited January 28, 2020 by donkelley

[Woodinblack]

55 minutes ago, donkelley said:

so, summarizing what I'm reading here (I haven't tried it myself), the ammoon wireless maybe also is very low latency, but coupled with a couple other digital effects with each very low latency ends up with audible latency.... that's just not ok

Does it? I guess any latency adds up. Certainly not an issue for my use, it is exclusively used practicing in the house or band practice.

55 minutes ago, donkelley said:

I wonder how many other wireless systems have latency that, when combined with a couple of digital effects, result in an audible latency issue?

Every single thing will add latency, if you add them together they make more. How much is audible depends on what you are playing / listening to.

[donkelley]

10 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

Does it? I guess any latency adds up. Certainly not an issue for my use, it is exclusively used practicing in the house or band practice.

Every single thing will add latency, if you add them together they make more. How much is audible depends on what you are playing / listening to.

Yes, latency adds up.  Not everything adds audible latency actually, only digital gear does (Well there are exceptions, but it's inherent to digital gear, although mostly so short as to be completely unimportant and inaudible), and typically most of it is so low it doesn't matter.

I'm simply basing the feedback on this wireless on what folks said above, and pointing out that science backs it.

HOWEVER, there are other possible culprits - for example, the player might "think" there's latency in a wireless if you walk further away from your amp than you normally would, like across a room, because there is VERY audible delay in sound travelling across a room - so it's certainly possible that the complaints about latency above are due to the wireless system giving the musicians a chance to experience the speed of sound being a very real problem.

Edited January 28, 2020 by donkelley

[Maude]

2 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

Every single thing will add latency, if you add them together they make more. How much is audible depends on what you are playing / listening to.

I think some of what I'm playing shows it up more, Mirror in the Bathroom, for example is consistently repetitive sixteenth notes at over 170bpm with virtually no let up, the slightest latency will be noticeable. Longer notes, slower playing or more melodic stuff would be less noticeable. It was only a couple of times I noticed it but I don't need to use wireless so there's no point persisting. 

[Maude]

1 minute ago, donkelley said:

Yes, latency adds up.  Not everything adds audible latency actually, only digital gear does, and typically most of it is so low it doesn't matter.

I'm simply basing the feedback on this wireless on what folks said above, and pointing out that science backs it.

HOWEVER, there are other possible culprits - for example, you might "think" there's latency in a wireless if you walk further away from your amp than you normally would, like across a room, because there is VERY audible delay in sound travelling across a room - so it's certainly possible that the complaints about latency above are due to the wireless system giving the musicians a chance to experience the speed of sound being a very real problem.

I only use a floor monitor in that band so my ears are only six feet from the source. 

It's very very minor, but as a test if I pull a string and let it slap back against the frets I can definitely hear the string/fret noise before I hear the amp reproducing that sound. One digital pedal and the wireless BTW. 

As said, it's a very small amount but it's enough to make me not bother using it, it's no biggie. 🙂

[donkelley]

1 minute ago, Maude said:

I only use a floor monitor in that band so my ears are only six feet from the source. 

It's very very minor, but as a test if I pull a string and let it slap back against the frets I can definitely hear the string/fret noise before I hear the amp reproducing that sound. One digital pedal and the wireless BTW. 

As said, it's a very small amount but it's enough to make me not bother using it, it's no biggie. 🙂

cool info, thanks.  Well there ya go - small delay in the wireless.  That would drive me nuts on bass - funny, but I've used wireless systems for years on guitar and lives with a spec of lag at times... but on bass I think I'd lose my mind LoL.  It's tough enough being perfectly timed on bass, and so important!

Glad it's such a good tool though, and useful for certain things at least 🙂  I might grab one at some point.

[paulbuzz]

It's interesting to bear in mind that the speed of sound is roughly one foot per millisecond, so a piece of gear that introduces a 1ms delay is equivalent to stepping one foot further away from your amp.

It would be interesting to see some real-world objectively measured figures for the amount of delay introduced by these items, as Stub was proposing upthread. I wait with bated breath! 😉

Edited January 28, 2020 by paulbuzz

[donkelley]

1 minute ago, paulbuzz said:

It's interesting to bear in mind that the speed of sound is roughly one foot per millisecond, so a piece of gear that introduces a 1ms delay is equivalent to stepping one foot further away from your amp.

exactly!  the speed of sound is a much bigger cause of "latency" in hearing what you play from your amp than most digital products these days.

I'm looking forward to objective tests also!

 

Really interesting thread