Death of the big cab?

[Cat Burrito]

I had the Ampeg big rig, but having gotten into my mid 40s downsized to a much more compact setup. It sounded great BUT this year I have done 3 pro tours and a series of higher profile supports with name bands at larger venues. So I have gone full circle and now have an Orange 4x10 and 1x15. The 4x10 is hands down the best cab I have ever heard but sadly it is also the heaviest. I am just much more conscious of ensuring that a friend is around to help with all the lifting. I'd add generally amps don't hold the resale in the way that basses do. So it kinda stands to reason.

[ClassicVibes]

Myself and my band now use only IEMs. Try them - they're life changing! 

[stewblack]

My 8x10 Eden combo is languishing in a the local 2nd hand shop. Suspect it may put down roots. Sounds amazing, easy to wheel around, a bugger to lift. 

It's there for the same reason it now won't sell. Lightweight cabs. I know all the arguments in favour of everyone through the pa wearing earphones, they have been made again and again.

But some of us love a good cab. A good big cab at that. Sadly I can't move a big cab any more 

[roger]

Came to see you at the beehive ‘cat’ you do have a great sound with that orange set up👍 Is the creedence tribute your only band?

[Si600]

I saw Alter Bridge on Tuesday, not a great show but that's for another thread. They had a pair of Ashdown 810s stacked sideways. It looked perfect visually but I'd never do it.

[Ted Theodore Logan, III]

19 hours ago, knicknack said:

Had a great one in the local last weekend....

Nice, that's one of those fancy American Style fridge freezers!! Think of the amount of Bud's you can pack into that thing!!

[Ted Theodore Logan, III]

4 minutes ago, Si600 said:

I saw Alter Bridge on Tuesday, not a great show but that's for another thread. They had a pair of Ashdown 810s stacked sideways. It looked perfect visually but I'd never do it.

It's all about the image!!  That's why I rock with high end gear!! It gives an illusion of talent... At least that's what the salesman told me whilst he was running my card through the machine... 

[Cat Burrito]

1 hour ago, roger said:

Came to see you at the beehive ‘cat’ you do have a great sound with that orange set up👍 Is the creedence tribute your only band?

Thank you. That's not so much a band as an excuse for some old mates to get together, have a few beers and play some music. I'm in a few bands, the main one being an originals band that plays all over the UK and Europe. I certainly don't complain about not being busy at the moment.

[[email protected]]

Whatever tool is right for the job!

Indoors I agree that generally a small cab is all you need, my SWR 210 Goliath Jnr does wonderfully for 80% of my gigs, occasionally joined by a 15 Bertha for the largest venues. The gigs when the 610 Goliath Snr gets rolled out is for those summer outdoor gigs where the bass simply disappears into the ether. I'm guessing bands that are blessed with a truly huge PA have no issues with the bass going through them however with only 4 Mackies it's not an option for myself.

[BigRedX]

Remember that if your bass goes through the PA the your speaker cab(s) are making a negligible contribution to the FoH sound.

[leftybassman392]

29 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

Remember that if your bass goes through the PA the your speaker cab(s) are making a negligible contribution to the FoH sound.

Indeed, which was of course my point in my earlier comment.

[dave_bass5]

Never owned a big cab, nor 2 cabs at once (as a rig), but i have enjoyed using the rehearsal studios 'Dinosaur' rigs over the years. Its only when i try and move them that i realise why Ive never owned one. I couldn't even begin to imagine how i would have gigged with something so big and cumbersome.

[Stofferson]

Had various cabs over the years, Had an ABM 810, sounded ace, but space and weight meant it wasn't meant to be.

Using a Barefaced Four 10 now, perfect mix of loud and small, (in comparison to other 4x10's) light and kicks out a storm.

That being said, whenever I have played "bigger stages" there's usually several 810's etc rented for the show by the tech's so would I need to get something myself to handle shows like that? it's always been sorted, but for the day to day usual pub/club gigs, my set up works a treat and an 810 would be over kill, especially when you're trying to keep costs down, travel in the same car etc.

IEM's, currently as a band we cant afford a decent set up, then factor in multi band bills / 15 minute changeovers, being the band requested to provide back line to share for gigs etc. Unless IEM's became a the "norm" rather than 412's and bass stacks etc. That's something for the future for us.

Don't get me wrong, we would love an IEM set up, just not feasible for the situation I am in, tbf never tried them either so i can really say anything negative about them only what I have witnessed via other bands using them. Plus I love "feeling" the bass kick me in the back and to p1ss of our guitarist 🙂 

[stewblack]

6 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Never owned a big cab, nor 2 cabs at once (as a rig), but i have enjoyed using the rehearsal studios 'Dinosaur' rigs over the years. Its only when i try and move them that i realise why Ive never owned one. I couldn't even begin to imagine how i would have gigged with something so big and cumbersome.

My 8x10 rocked back onto wheels handle on the top, very easy to move. I drove it about in a trailer. Trailer was low enough and centre of gravity just right that I could lean the cab back and it would gracefully tilt and lie flat then I slid it in. The trailer was backed into a lock up. Job done. Handling was actually very easy.

But if the venue had stairs...

[bassbiscuits]

I used to lug around an Ashdown 8x10 and only this summer sold my Aguilar GS410. Both lovely sounding cabs, but just way too much for me to move around (usually by myself).

Down to a single Schroeder 1210 now, and would love to go even lighter (with the neodymium version of the same cab maybe).

I love the sound of a big, trouser-flapping box but not for me these days, or my poor back. It's inevitable I'll explore the lightweight route as the years since my 40th birthday fade into distant memory...

 

[BigRedX]

38 minutes ago, Stofferson said:

Had various cabs over the years, Had an ABM 810, sounded ace, but space and weight meant it wasn't meant to be.

Using a Barefaced Four 10 now, perfect mix of loud and small, (in comparison to other 4x10's) light and kicks out a storm.

That being said, whenever I have played "bigger stages" there's usually several 810's etc rented for the show by the tech's so would I need to get something myself to handle shows like that? it's always been sorted, but for the day to day usual pub/club gigs, my set up works a treat and an 810 would be over kill, especially when you're trying to keep costs down, travel in the same car etc.

IEM's, currently as a band we cant afford a decent set up, then factor in multi band bills / 15 minute changeovers, being the band requested to provide back line to share for gigs etc. Unless IEM's became a the "norm" rather than 412's and bass stacks etc. That's something for the future for us.

Don't get me wrong, we would love an IEM set up, just not feasible for the situation I am in, tbf never tried them either so i can really say anything negative about them only what I have witnessed via other bands using them. Plus I love "feeling" the bass kick me in the back and to p1ss of our guitarist 🙂 

What sort of stage do you call "bigger"? IME once you get to something the size of Camden Underworld on-stage rigs are virtually useless unless you spend the entire gig stood a few feet directly in front of them. What you hear through the PA foldback is likely to be louder.

Big rigs for big bands are completely for show. The bass will be DI'd so at the most the pre-amp of just one of the amps will be doing anything you can hear FoH, and if the band aren't on IEM then they'll still hear more from the monitors then they can for the backline.

[Muzz]

I think this discussion is pretty much a replica of the one about vinyl: there's an old-school anachronism of a setup that is a lot of work and doesn't make an awful lot of sense, but some people can hear a difference or just want to stick with it anyway...

Edited November 22, 2019 by Muzz

[Lozz196]

On stage monitoring is fine if for one you like bass coming from the monitors (I don’t, but I never said I was normal) and secondly/mainly you get a good soundcheck to get the levels right. If not you can end up being one of those annoying bands continually asking for changes between every song. Whereas for me a decent on stage presence of a 410/610/810 eliminates both. I’ll only ever set my amp to the same levels as the kit anyway, but a stackmungus set up makes it a fuller, better sound.

Have to add tho, a few years back I was asked to help move a flight-cased Ampeg 810. Up 3 flights of angled stairs. Took 7 of us (well we are all old).

Edited November 22, 2019 by Lozz196

[Stofferson]

51 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

What sort of stage do you call "bigger"? IME once you get to something the size of Camden Underworld on-stage rigs are virtually useless unless you spend the entire gig stood a few feet directly in front of them. What you hear through the PA foldback is likely to be louder.

Big rigs for big bands are completely for show. The bass will be DI'd so at the most the pre-amp of just one of the amps will be doing anything you can hear FoH, and if the band aren't on IEM then they'll still hear more from the monitors then they can for the backline.

Sheffield 02 Main stage, Birmingham 02 main stage, Sophie Stage at Bloodstock this year.

Totally agree man but these types of gigs are not based on us as a band alone so quick change overs, no roadies and not our own engineer, I cant rely on the monitor mix, now don't get me wrong, 99/100 is awesome, but i do like to hear it behind me just in case, Camden Underworld would be awesome, although not yet played it, got Electric Ballroom next year though. 

 

Edit, Still getting used to these big stages, so I dont disagree with you good sir, we're just in a not position financially to get rid of the rigs, nor have the sound check and tech team to ensure smooth sound for us and out front 🙂 The road is hard and full of many lessons

Edited November 22, 2019 by Stofferson
adding more info :-)

[dave_bass5]

1 hour ago, bassbiscuits said:

Down to a single Schroeder 1210 now, and would love to go even lighter (with the neodymium version of the same cab maybe).

I had that cab, and while i loved it to bits it was quite heavy. I also got a 1212L for another band i was playing with, and there was a noticeable difference in weight. Well worth it if you do go that route.

[Ted Theodore Logan, III]

1 hour ago, Muzz said:

I think this discussion is pretty much a replica of the one about vinyl: there's an old-school anachronism of a setup that is a lot of work and doesn't make an awful lot of sense, but some people can hear a difference or just want to stick with it anyway...

There's certainly a difference when you play those old Satan Spindles backward...

They go “wlragph, byurp, yurp, yurp, nught... buy more bass guitars... flurp, nught, noop, noop"

[chris_b]

I don't think we are seeing the death of big cabs, a decline definitely, but people are still buying and using them. What we are seeing is the rise of lightweight cabs. 12 years ago people needed a reason to buy a D class amps and Neo cabs, now they need a better reason not to.

It's evolution, who buys those wardrobe sized TV's these days?

[BaggyMan]

oh yeah just noticing the trend, not commenting on its validity and whether light weight is the best or whatever.  I actually have a shed have a shed full of usable but probably unsellable cabs

[Muzz]

11 minutes ago, chris_b said:

I don't think we are seeing the death of big cabs, a decline definitely, but people are still buying and using them. What we are seeing is the rise of lightweight cabs. 12 years ago people needed a reason to buy a D class amps and Neo cabs, now they need a better reason not to.

It's evolution, who buys those wardrobe sized TV's these days?

Yep; I think their bargain presence in the secondhand market is great for newer bassists (probably with stronger backs and the enthusiasm most of us dinosaurs used to have back in our giddy youths) to progress onto.

Ahhh, those old tube tellys? There was a warm and heft to those old analogue signals that all this new digital nonsense has ruined, etc, etc... 🤐

Edited November 22, 2019 by Muzz

[bassbiscuits]

1 hour ago, dave_bass5 said:

I had that cab, and while i loved it to bits it was quite heavy. I also got a 1212L for another band i was playing with, and there was a noticeable difference in weight. Well worth it if you do go that route.

You're right - it's about 24 kg but it is awesome. I've got my eyes peeled for another 1210L or 1212L but they're surprisingly scarce.