Small valve amps. Caution; guitar related content

[Dan Dare]

3 hours ago, NancyJohnson said:

As this thread took a little modelling amp swerve, I'll just throw in my 2 cents.  I don't play much guitar, but I do own a combo - a Line 6 Spider IV - that I use for home recording; to my ears it sounds fine for demos...DI'd or cranked on the landing with a microphone in front of it.  Whilst yes, I know that Line 6 stuff is sneered at and that this probably hasn't been withing a mile of a valve, a guitarist who's used it for recording at mine just loves the thing and compares it favourably with this Orange head and 4x12 and doesn't have an issue getting usable tones out of it.

 

[NancyJohnson]

4 hours ago, Dan Dare said:

 

This was like watching Jeremy Clarkson.

The Spider IV was under £200 new, it just opens up a huge variety of sounds and it records well.  It's never been out of my house.  I think the laughable element of these kind of reviews is that the guy is probably making a comparison against head/cab combinations that cost ten or twenty times the price of the Spider, so honestly, what does this guy expect?

[skankdelvar]

2 hours ago, NancyJohnson said:

This was like watching Jeremy Clarkson

I've seen that big, ignorant fat f*cker before with his long hair, bald at the front and looking about sixty if he's a day.

Watching his channel is like having your car towed away by a 'Private Contractor' and going to their yard to get it back and you go in the Portakabin to pay some fat moron the fine and then you have to find your car and when you do you notice there's a big scratch on your driver's door so you go back to the Portakabin and the fat moron says 'It was like that when we towed it, pal. Prove it wasn't'.

Just saying.

[SICbass]

6 hours ago, skankdelvar said:

I've seen that big, ignorant fat f*cker before with his long hair, bald at the front and looking about sixty if he's a day.

Watching his channel is like having your car towed away by a 'Private Contractor' and going to their yard to get it back and you go in the Portakabin to pay some fat moron the fine and then you have to find your car and when you do you notice there's a big scratch on your driver's door so you go back to the Portakabin and the fat moron says 'It was like that when we towed it, pal. Prove it wasn't'.

Just saying.

Come down from that fence Skank and share your real feelings with us all.

[NancyJohnson]

6 hours ago, skankdelvar said:

I've seen that big, ignorant fat f*cker...

The sadness of this video is the championing of gear destruction just because it doesn't compare to more expensive stuff, thus going under the sledgehammer.

It's 2019 folks, pretty much everything manufactured nowadays is generally going to be fittish for purpose; let's face it, while it's probably unlikely many Line6 Spider combos will be gracing big stages, but for bedroom, rehearsal or pub gig stuff, it's going to be fine and compared to what we all probably had access to when we first started out, these modelling amps are like something out of Tomorrows World. 

It really just sickens me that these asshats are just making a (small) name for themselves by subjecting usable gear to destruction, when it could be donated to a kid.

[Bolo]

Oh boohoo. A bit of plastic got hurt cry cry.

This guy has offered more solid / sound advice to musicians trying to improve than most forums have.

Sure you can disagree with him, and it's easy to hate the way that he says things but he is sincere and usually gives good reason why.

In an age where the pneumatic press channel has millions of subscribers and trash is literally becoming a threat to the human race, this anger at someone who destroyed one thing he gave plenty of reason to dislike is fairly futile to say the least.

[SICbass]

59 minutes ago, Bolo said:

Oh boohoo. A bit of plastic got hurt cry cry.

This guy has offered more solid / sound advice to musicians trying to improve than most forums have.

Sure you can disagree with him, and it's easy to hate the way that he says things but he is sincere and usually gives good reason why.

In an age where the pneumatic press channel has millions of subscribers and trash is literally becoming a threat to the human race, this anger at someone who destroyed one thing he gave plenty of reason to dislike is fairly futile to say the least.

Cynicism anyone?

[Stub Mandrel]

12 hours ago, NancyJohnson said:

This was like watching Jeremy Clarkson.

And like Clarkson, his opinions are delivered in a cartoonish, exaggerated way but do contain a genuine opinion underneath.

We have to accept that if your YouTube  channel is going to be followed by more than five people (your mate, you cat and three bots trying to get you to subscribe to a service to get more followers) it has to be ENTERTAINMENT front and centre.

As I think i said earlier my brother has a similar opinion of  my Vox Valvetronix emulating amp. If I was a guitarist in a band, I'd be looking for one decent amp to give me 'my' sound on stage. But I'm not, I just want something to have fun with in the living room - small modelling combos are ideal for this.

That said, I am regularly tempted to add a speaker out to it and put it through a 2x12...

[Monkey Steve]

1 minute ago, Stub Mandrel said:

And like Clarkson, his opinions are delivered in a cartoonish, exaggerated way but do contain a genuine opinion underneath.

We have to accept that if your YouTube  channel is going to be followed by more than five people (your mate, you cat and three bots trying to get you to subscribe to a service to get more followers) it has to be ENTERTAINMENT front and centre.

As I think i said earlier my brother has a similar opinion of  my Vox Valvetronix emulating amp. If I was a guitarist in a band, I'd be looking for one decent amp to give me 'my' sound on stage. But I'm not, I just want something to have fun with in the living room - small modelling combos are ideal for this.

That said, I am regularly tempted to add a speaker out to it and put it through a 2x12...

exactly - as the Logan Paul vs KSI boxing match this weekend proves.  Very well argued piece on Radio 5 last night from Steve Bunce that it is good for boxing because it's bringing attention to the sport from millions of people who wouldn't ever go along to a boxing match

As regards modelling amps, they definitely have their place.  The guitarists in a name band i know both have Kempers because they can instantly have any amp sound they want, they can be DI'd so soundchecks are a breeze, and with the added bonus that they can be taken on a plane as hand luggage for overseas festivals.  the only thing they miss is the kick in the chest you get from a roaring valve amp, but it's a small price to pay

[Beer of the Bass]

3 hours ago, NancyJohnson said:

It's 2019 folks, pretty much everything manufactured nowadays is generally going to be fittish for purpose; let's face it, while it's probably unlikely many Line6 Spider combos will be gracing big stages, but for bedroom, rehearsal or pub gig stuff, it's going to be fine and compared to what we all probably had access to when we first started out, these modelling amps are like something out of Tomorrows World. 

 

 

I think Robert Smith has been using Line 6 Spider amps lately for some big gigs, admittedly a bit higher up the range than the model in the video.  Though he is both a bit of a contrary sort, and a "clean amp with loads of effects" type player, so I could imagine him taking to them more than most would.

[leftybassman392]

5 hours ago, NancyJohnson said:

compared to what we all probably had access to when we first started out, these modelling amps are like something out of Tomorrows World.

I used to have one of these:

along with its pedalboard:

Seemed like a good idea at the time...

 

 

I have nothing against this kind of technology. In fact I still have one of these:

As I said previously though, I have no desire to own this kind of kit any more. (I have excluded the otherwise excellent Fender Superchamp XD from consideration for precisely this reason).

Since I'm unlikely ever to perform in public again (never say never and all that, but realistically..), I want something that suits my needs. My needs are small, simple, quality, valves in roughly equal measure.

Edited November 8, 2019 by leftybassman392

[sbrag]

Dont know if it has been listed on here but my brother has just bought a Vox AC15 which he loves which gives something different from his old Marshall, and I've seen good reviews of the AC4 as well, although they are very simple.

 

Edited November 8, 2019 by sbrag

[leftybassman392]

Update: I've decided to try to sell the Cornford separately. I've put ads in the marketplace here and over on the Guitarchat sister site.

If anybody knows anybody who might be interested, there could be a half of shandy in it for you.

[Stub Mandrel]

4 hours ago, sbrag said:

Dont know if it has been listed on here but my brother has just bought a Vox AC15 which he loves which gives something different from his old Marshall, and I've seen good reviews of the AC4 as well, although they are very simple.

 

My valve addicted brother has an AC4 as his 'living room amp' it is very nice.

[leftybassman392]

One possibility I'm considering is going with a bit more power output than I had originally specified (which brings in 10-15 watt amps that don't have internal attenuation), and then using a power soak of some sort, perhaps something like this Bugera

Upsides (in my head, that is)

• it gets me the reduced SPL I'm after while allowing me to drive the o/p stage properly
• Simple to hook up and use
• inexpensive
• Possibility of running a headphone o/p. I still have a pair of DT100's from the studio days, and would like to use them. They still look dead cool to me; if that makes me an old fart, well so be it.

Downsides...?

 

Many years ago I used a Marshall Powerbrake with the 50W Dual Reverb rig I was gigging with at the time. It worked well, but IIRC lost a little of the bite I'd had previously (presumably because the speakers weren't being pushed into breakup). In my current situation I'm not so sure this would really be an issue, but I'd appreciate people's thoughts on the matter anyway.

 

ETA: Please don't mention using the Bugera with the Cornford. It's too big and too heavy and it is going, ok?

Edited November 9, 2019 by leftybassman392

[skankdelvar]

7 hours ago, leftybassman392 said:

One possibility I'm considering is going with a bit more power output than I had originally specified (which brings in 10-15 watt amps that don't have internal attenuation), and then using a power soak of some sort

Here be dragons.

So you go off and spend £500 on a nice but too loud amp and a miserable £65 on a power soak. You get it home and play it and think 'H'mm. Does this sound as good as it could?'

So you research mid-range power soaks and go off and spend £300 on a better power soak.  You get it home and play it and think 'H'mm. Does this sound as good as it could?'

So you research high end power soaks and go off and spend £1100 on a UA OX Amp Top box because that's apparently the best power soak around at the moment.  You get it home and play it and think 'H'mm. Does this sound as good as it does when I don't use a power soak?'

You have now spent £1965.00 on a rig that you're not sure about. So you sell it for a grand and spend £1500 on a small DrZ combo so now you've spent about £2500 and you think 'Blimey, I could have imported a real vintage Princeton Reverb for that money' so you sell off everything you own and enter a monastery.

Here's yet another approach:

Buy a 70's Silverface Champ and a quality reverb pedal. Ask a tech to put in one switch which takes the tone stack out of the circuit (dirt) and another which switches out the negative feedback ("sparkle"). 

[ezbass]

7 hours ago, leftybassman392 said:

One possibility I'm considering is going with a bit more power output than I had originally specified (which brings in 10-15 watt amps that don't have internal attenuation), and then using a power soak of some sort,

Or do they? @ 3:20

 

[leftybassman392]

18 minutes ago, skankdelvar said:

Here be dragons.

Here's the thing:

I've had an offer of a trade for an earlier version of one of the amps on my shortlist. Still very early in the process and I don't want to say too much until I've tested some other gear (and out of respect for the other party), but if I do go this route it would have several advantages, not least that I rather like the basic sound of the amp in question and reckon I could work with it if I don't unearth anything I like more. (It's not a Cornford, but that decision has already been made). The downside would be that I couldn't crank the power stage, hence the power soak.

Whatever I go for, I won't be able to play loud enough to get much bite from the speaker anyway unless - as per your suggestion - I go seriously retro (which I'm a little reluctant to do in the light of some previous bad experiences with vintage gear). All the other amps on my list either have power soaks built-in or would need them. The only question for me to answer is the extent to which the built-in attenuators compromise the sound of the amps in question (which of course will be very easy to test).

With apologies for repeating myself, in all likelihood this is all going to be for my own benefit. What I should perhaps have made a little clearer is that at root the idea behind doing this is to rekindle a spark I was accustomed to thinking had been extinguished some years ago. If I tell you that my last public performance of any kind was over 4 years ago, and that since that time I haven't played a single song from beginning to end - not one - you may perhaps see where I'm coming from.

To repeat something else I said upfront, I asked people to offer their thoughts as to what might be worth looking at in the field of small, quality valve amps. The response from the Basschat Collective has been magnificent (not least from your good self) as I knew it would be. The rest I can do for myself.

 

[skankdelvar]

6 minutes ago, leftybassman392 said:

Here's the thing:

 That all sounds jolly exciting! I hope the amp you have in mind turns out to do the biz.

As far as power soaks go, I went from the Marshall to a THD and then gave up before I fell into the vortex of madness. So then I bought a smaller amp - a Rivera R55 - which was still too loud so I put a less efficient speaker in it and it was still too loud so I sold the amp and now I wish I hadn't 

[LeftyJ]

I can highly recommend the Koch Classic SE. There's a 6 watt version and a slightly larger 12 watt version, with the same circuitry but different power tube. I have the 6, and I love it. It's a no-frills design, single channel, no reverb, and just a tone control rather than a 3-band EQ, but the range of tones is huge and it sounds brilliant and responsive. I love mine. 

[Dan Dare]

On 07/11/2019 at 21:31, NancyJohnson said:

This was like watching Jeremy Clarkson.

The Spider IV was under £200 new, it just opens up a huge variety of sounds and it records well.  It's never been out of my house.  I think the laughable element of these kind of reviews is that the guy is probably making a comparison against head/cab combinations that cost ten or twenty times the price of the Spider, so honestly, what does this guy expect?

As dear old Ian Dury put it, "A sense of humour is required, amongst the bacon rinds". As a matter of interest, he does recommend an equally affordable combination - Joyo Zombie and Harley Benton 1x12 (which has a Celestion Vintage 30 in it for the same price you'd pay just to buy the drive unit), so he isn't just knocking stuff. He does offer practical alternatives.

Edited November 10, 2019 by Dan Dare

[Lozz196]

42 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

As dear old Ian Dury put it, "A sense of humour is required, amongst the bacon rinds". As a matter of interest, he does recommend an equally affordable combination - Joyo Zombie and Harley Benton 1x12 (which has a Celestion Vintage 30 in it for the same price you'd pay just to buy the drive unit), so he isn't just knocking stuff. He does offer practical alternatives.

A mate of mine has one of those Harley Benton 1x12s and he really rates it. And he’s very finicky with gear, if it’s not right he gets rid pdq.

[Monkey Steve]

I have a Marshall Power Brake and used it as a master volume on an old 50w Super Lead II combo. Worked brilliantly. Hence my slight annoyance that the Class 5 combo is hard wired so you can't just unplug the speaker and use the Power Brake.

That said, different attenuators seem to produce different results so I'd suggest watching as many demo videos as you can before shelling out

[leftybassman392]

3 hours ago, Monkey Steve said:

different attenuators seem to produce different results so I'd suggest watching as many demo videos as you can before shelling out

Indeed, and as gentle @skankdelvar has suggested, some of them are really rather pricey! I've watched a few demos (actually I've spent quite a lot of my time watching demos of one sort or another lately), and still can't decide where the optimum cost/benefit ratio lies. Some of the amps on my list feature built-in attenuators, and I'm keen to know how well they work against third party offerings.

[Monkey Steve]

I can only speak for the "low power mode" switch on my Marshall, and that's maybe not an ideal comparison, because that's simply the sound that the amp makes!  I haven't used it in full fat 5W output mode since i got it and established that 5 watts is way too loud for practicing in the front room.  Whether or not it would have been better handled by a different attenuator is moot (as explained above) so perhaps it's simply something that you'll have to test when you try the amps out - cut the output and see if you like the sound