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Starting off on a song at the wrong tempo...


missis sumner

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Most of my gigs are on drums. I'm normally pretty good at this but when I struggle is when I have to start one song immediately after the end of the last. My band do this to try and keep the momentum going but sometimes it just fries my brain trying to think of the tempo of the next track while I'm playing the last couple of bars of the current track. It's really difficult!

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9 minutes ago, Twigman said:

Not if you're playing to a guitar delay

yes - once played guitar in a covers band where one song had a delay on the guitar which only occurred during a mid-song break before everybody else comes back in (Going Underground I think).  Fortunately we were shambolic enough between songs that me putting the delay on and playing a couple of chords so that the drummer could pick up the tempo didn't stick out as more ragged than usual.  The drummer just picked up his count in from that so we'#d go into the song pretty quickly after I'd done it

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On 07/11/2019 at 13:24, chris_b said:

Can you count these songs in?

I did toward the end of his tenure, particularly the one he got into a habit of starting way too slow. He's had to pack in drumming completely due to back issues and sciatica so I didn't want to get heavy handed with him knowing he was on his way out.

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This irritates the hell out of me... hasn't happened recently as much as it did in my youth, but I find it exasperating...

The thing that irks me most is not starting at the wrong tempo, but failing to realise something is at the wrong tempo and carrying on at the incorrect tempo... makes me cringe... Led me to wonder on a number of occasions if certain band members would notice if I was playing the wrong song 🙄 

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On 01/11/2019 at 20:31, TimR said:

My worst experience regards timing was when the drummer counted and then proceeded to play Moon River in 4/4. 

We had ‘learned’ it specifically for the couple’s wedding anniversary for their ‘first dance’! I’ve never seen anyone waltz in 4/4 before or since. 

I was on a cross-channel ferry many years ago where the on-ship entertainment was a duo with either a very limited drum machine or very little knowledge of music, who did "Delilah" in 4/4. I listened to it with a sort of horrified fascination.

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27 minutes ago, ambient said:

Surely the drummer should just count in, communicating the tempo to everyone else, even if he doesn’t actually start the song? Or am I missing something? It’s surely one of the basics of playing with an ensemble.

Only if the other band members can't be relied on to get the right tempo.

We all make mistakes but we all ought to be able to get the tempo right 99 times out of 100?

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1 hour ago, Stub Mandrel said:

Only if the other band members can't be relied on to get the right tempo.

We all make mistakes but we all ought to be able to get the tempo right 99 times out of 100?

A quiet verbal count from the drummer is what I’m used to, though most people I play with have a pretty good sense of time. It’s communication at the end of the day, asking is this about right?

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9 hours ago, ambient said:

Surely the drummer should just count in, communicating the tempo to everyone else, even if he doesn’t actually start the song? Or am I missing something? It’s surely one of the basics of playing with an ensemble.

Yes and he/she should check the tempo with a metronome before giving the count. That's the way it happens in studios and on pro' jobs. All this sharing the count-in around between band members, etc is frankly amateurish. I've heard people count 1-2-3-4 for a 3/4 song and then start to actually play at a completely different tempo from the count they just gave. It doesn't matter how good a sense of time anyone has. When the adrenaline is going on a gig, it's too easy to be too quick.

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1 hour ago, Dan Dare said:

 When the adrenaline is going on a gig, it's too easy to be too quick.

which is why, on a lot live albums, the band plays songs quicker than the studio versions, IMO there's nothing wrong with that, just adds to the vibe of listening to a band live, after all if they're any good the crowd has an adrenaline rush as well

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9 hours ago, Dan Dare said:

I've heard people count 1-2-3-4 for a 3/4 song and then start to actually play at a completely different tempo from the count they just gave. 

The (distinctly average but vastly experienced) drummer from my last band insisted on counting 4 at the start of White Room. Which starts in 5/4.

I tried pointing this out and was ridiculed. “I’ve been playing White Room since before you were born blah blah...”

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18 hours ago, TimR said:

No point in having a metronome in that case then. 🤔

 

9 hours ago, geoham said:

The (distinctly average but vastly experienced) drummer from my last band insisted on counting 4 at the start of White Room. Which starts in 5/4.

I tried pointing this out and was ridiculed. “I’ve been playing White Room since before you were born blah blah...”

 

1 hour ago, KevB said:

I've played with one or two drummers who do the count in at a different tempo to what they actually go on to play at.

All of the above illustrate why the drummer needs to check the tempo with a metronome, app or whatever before giving the count. I find it hard to credit that a anyone would argue against doing so. It's the only way to guarantee you start at the correct tempo.

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19 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

All of the above illustrate why the drummer needs to check the tempo with a metronome, app or whatever before giving the count. I find it hard to credit that a anyone would argue against doing so. It's the only way to guarantee you start at the correct tempo.

Sorry, I think it's just introducing more faff for minimal benefit. Plus, in a live context there are times when you want to change the tempo to suit the way the gig is going; if everyone's up and dancing but you still want to play that ballad, pep up the tempo a bit 🙂

If someone can't count accurately maybe they need help, but I've never been in a band where we couldn't judge tempo accurately enough.

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