Future Impact v3 and now V4

[stewblack]

Had a couple of good sessions on the FI this week. Still feeling my way in, but it's a good way (for me) to learn. I copy someone else's patch into the edito and think, OK but what if I want the instrument more bassy and the synth less distorted. Then work out how to achieve this. It removes the kind of techno blindness I get when I try to start from a blank page.

Doing smaller, specific tasks actually begins to ingrain all sorts of other seemingly minor steps. Slowly I built the whole.

EDIT: (for the ahem more literally minded) The above is merely an hypothetical example. I don't spend all day just doing those two things.

Edited June 19, 2020 by stewblack

[burno70]

I'm struggling with the pedal unfortunately. Seems a bit too complicated for me. Might move it on, not sure yet.

[prowla]

1 hour ago, burno70 said:

I'm struggling with the pedal unfortunately. Seems a bit too complicated for me. Might move it on, not sure yet.

I think if you can find a few killer sounds, then stick with them.

It is a device you program, though.

[Quatschmacher]

1 hour ago, burno70 said:

I'm struggling with the pedal unfortunately. Seems a bit too complicated for me. Might move it on, not sure yet.

What are you struggling with? Playing it cleanly? Programming it? Transferring patches onto it?

[SICbass]

3 hours ago, burno70 said:

I'm struggling with the pedal unfortunately. Seems a bit too complicated for me. Might move it on, not sure yet.

It really is worth a bit of time and effort - @Quatschmacher is super helpful. Give it a go 👍

[stewblack]

6 hours ago, burno70 said:

I'm struggling with the pedal unfortunately. Seems a bit too complicated for me. Might move it on, not sure yet.

I feel your pain. It is unlike any other pedal I've used, but the rewards are just great. 

I'm only starting to glimpse the possibilities but it's a really fun way to spend time. 

PM me if I can help I will. Sometimes having another total beginner to talk to can be helpful. 

Even if you don't bother learning to programme your own sounds, there are many really great ones out there you can download. 

[Owen]

That huge page of programming? No thanks, not for me. Load up great sounds other people have created? Yum yum, yes please. 

[Quatschmacher]

24 minutes ago, owen said:

That huge page of programming? No thanks, not for me. Load up great sounds other people have created? Yum yum, yes please. 

It’s not as daunting as it first appears. Would be good if some others learn how to do it too - it’s a bit lonely being almost the only person writing patches for it and sharing. 😆

[GisserD]

3 hours ago, Quatschmacher said:

It’s not as daunting as it first appears. Would be good if some others learn how to do it too - it’s a bit lonely being almost the only person writing patches for it and sharing. 😆

let's get that video done peter!

[burno70]

Hey thanks all for the replies and also the offer of assistance @stewblack

Just trying to configure the editor to get a bass sound rather than using the virtual keyboard is presenting a challenge but I will have another crack at that later. I'm finding the manual here, whilst detailed, a bit of a dry read. An easy or quick start guide to editing section with a tutorial on setting up a very basic patch would have been really helpful here. Unless I've missed something? A video tutorial would be even better.

I know it's an awesome pedal, some of the patches I've heard are amazing. I just want to tweak for my own preference.

[Quatschmacher]

22 minutes ago, burno70 said:

Hey thanks all for the replies and also the offer of assistance @stewblack

Just trying to configure the editor to get a bass sound rather than using the virtual keyboard is presenting a challenge but I will have another crack at that later. I'm finding the manual here, whilst detailed, a bit of a dry read. An easy or quick start guide to editing section with a tutorial on setting up a very basic patch would have been really helpful here. Unless I've missed something? A video tutorial would be even better.

I know it's an awesome pedal, some of the patches I've heard are amazing. I just want to tweak for my own preference.

Yes you have missed it. 🙂 I included a tutorial on setting up a basic patch from scratch in the manual (“building your first sound”) as I thought it’d be useful. See the contents menu and click the link. (The manual is embedded in the editor via the “help” tab).

There isn’t really a shortcut to learning a complex device like this. If you know a bit about synthesis in general and its nomenclature then learning the FI is much quicker. This is a very useful interactive and fun tool:

https://learningsynths.ableton.com

Edited June 27, 2020 by Quatschmacher

[stewblack]

3 hours ago, burno70 said:

A video tutorial would be even better

I thought the same - however I also think this is very much up to us, the users. If I knew how to capture video on the desktop I would happily have a go. 

[Quatschmacher]

As I can’t get to making a video until I can meet up with @GisserD I have offered to talk through the editor via video call. Either via WhatsApp and/or team share. 

[prowla]

Something weird...

I've just plugged in a Tech21 MIDI Mongoose to the FI and the numbers are 1 out.

If the MM is on 1, the FI does nothing, if the MM is on 2, the FI is on 1, etc.

[stewblack]

42 minutes ago, prowla said:

Something weird...

I've just plugged in a Tech21 MIDI Mongoose to the FI and the numbers are 1 out.

If the MM is on 1, the FI does nothing, if the MM is on 2, the FI is on 1, etc.

When I was looking at midi switchers, I recall reading about this issue. Sure it was T21...I will have a look around. 

[prowla]

4 minutes ago, stewblack said:

When I was looking at midi switchers, I recall reading about this issue. Sure it was T21...I will have a look around. 

Thanks!

[Quatschmacher]

1 hour ago, prowla said:

Something weird...

I've just plugged in a Tech21 MIDI Mongoose to the FI and the numbers are 1 out.

If the MM is on 1, the FI does nothing, if the MM is on 2, the FI is on 1, etc.

It’s a common problem since some devices count 0-127 whereas others count 1-128.

[prowla]

1 minute ago, Quatschmacher said:

It’s a common problem since some devices count 0-127 whereas others count 1-128.

That's an annoying error in a "standard"!

So I have two devices which display "1", but one is thinking "0".

Something is interpreting binary "00000000", as "00000001".

Which one is it which is displaying "1" when it is actually at "0" - do you know?

Does the FI firmware have an option to choose?

Is there a name for that (like "big endian" or whatever)?

 

[prowla]

On 18/06/2020 at 17:52, stewblack said:

I have my midi controller coming soon. After much delibration I ended up choosing (broadly speaking you understand) based on; price, function, ease of use.

Anything over 150 quid was a no no.

First favourite was the Behringer FCB1010. Loved by those who use it , a whole host of ways to assign different pedals and two expression pedals. Second hand? As low as £50.

Tech 21 Mongoose and Mouse I discounted after coming close. The Mongoose "simple to use" instruction video may just as well have been written in Esparanto and translated to Hebrew. Not the programming, the use. The Mouse I really liked because essentially it adds what the Future Impact most needs, a fast scroll and a back button.

Special mention to both Harley Benton pedals - surely the best value for money out there.

In the end though I went for this.

Affordable, can be battery powered, and above all else, small. I was close to the Behringer, because I know the brand and know to ignore the tommy-rot about reliability, and anyway - look at all those switches!! Common sense prevailed however. I need simplicity on stage, not a thousand possibilities. I'm scaling my kit down not making it bigger. When people are paying to be entertained they don't want to look at me frowning at the floor trying to work out what the hell to stomp on next.

This is just up, down, select. The only thing it does beyond that is allows me to set 20 presets. So instead of endlessly rearranging the order on the FI, I can leave that as is, and preset effects for whichever gig and band I'm in that night.

So, can you set it to 0-127/1-128 offset?

I'm really disappointed with the incompatibility between the MIDI Mongoose and the FI, but I wouldn't want to get another switch controller and find it is just the same?

I think the FI's usability is really compromised with its Program/Patch selection and without a usable & compact controller switch it'll be stuck with being a novelty unit rather than a Swiss Army knife.

[Quatschmacher]

3 minutes ago, prowla said:

So, can you set it to 0-127/1-128 offset?

I'm really disappointed with the incompatibility between the MIDI Mongoose and the FI, but I wouldn't want to get another switch controller and find it is just the same?

I think the FI's usability is really compromised with its Program/Patch selection and without a usable & compact controller switch it'll be stuck with being a novelty unit rather than a Swiss Army knife.

The FI isn't the issue rather the controller you used. My MC8 uses 0-127 and PC 1 on it corresponds to PC 1 on the FI. If you can, get a device that allows the limiting of PC scroll messages (like the MC6 and MC8 do) and simply set the lower and upper limits as 1 and 99 respectively and it all works perfectly.

[stewblack]

48 minutes ago, prowla said:

So, can you set it to 0-127/1-128 offset?

I'm really disappointed with the incompatibility between the MIDI Mongoose and the FI, but I wouldn't want to get another switch controller and find it is just the same?

I think the FI's usability is really compromised with its Program/Patch selection and without a usable & compact controller switch it'll be stuck with being a novelty unit rather than a Swiss Army knife.

No mine doesn't have this tick. 01 on the FI is 01 on the switcher 

[Quatschmacher]

I originally did this on my Moog Subsequent 37. I then recreated it using the C4 a couple of days ago and now I've done an FI version. Patch is available on the Panda online database site.

 

Edited June 28, 2020 by Quatschmacher

[prowla]

9 hours ago, Quatschmacher said:

The FI isn't the issue rather the controller you used. My MC8 uses 0-127 and PC 1 on it corresponds to PC 1 on the FI. If you can, get a device that allows the limiting of PC scroll messages (like the MC6 and MC8 do) and simply set the lower and upper limits as 1 and 99 respectively and it all works perfectly.

The issue is the incompatibility, not a fault of either product per-se, and it's down to a flaw in the MIDI standard which allows two products to be branded MIDI and not work properly together.

It is unproductive when representatives of a company say they are right and therefore it's the other company's fault or the customer's problem to sort it.

If either of them allowed an option to select 0-127/1-128, then the issue would be resolved.

The FI is run by software (firmware), and so could be enhanced to support the capability if it was deemed worthwhile.

Unfortunately, the Tech21 switcher is a sealed unit and so cannot be changed. (I am disappointed with them too, but that's not an FI customer support issue.)

There is nothing in the FI documentation or support to say that switchers must support 0-127 PC encoding, and in fact it is misleading, because the table on p.51 states:

Quote

MIDI Implementation

The FI will respond to the following standard MIDI messages:

Program Change: 1...99 for programs 1...99.

Based on that, it might be logical to infer that the MIDI PC implementation is 1-128 (but that it only goes up to 99).

At a minimum, I would suggest that:

1. The manual should be updated to make it clear that the FI operates on PC 0-127 mode.
2. The MIDI compatibility section be extended to highlight the PC issue.
3. The requirement is mentioned in mind in general discussions about the product.

Further, I would like to raise an enhancement request:

1. Can the FI firmware please be updated to include an option for Program Change (PC) 0-127/1-128 support.

Saying "it's not my problem" and recommending the purchase of another unit costing almost as much again as the FI to resolve it is not really what I would've hoped for.

[GisserD]

19 minutes ago, prowla said:

It is unproductive when representatives of a company say they are right and therefore it's the other company's fault or the customer's problem to sort it.

Im pretty sure Peter supports the FI comunity as a hobbyist and general top class human being. So you might want to rethink that attitude.

Midi users have been dealing with this for decades, so why is it all of a sudden such a big issue for you?

Its out by 1. Deal with it. if you cant deal with it, a more productive approach might be to engage the developers to promote a change to the firmware. 

 

[Quatschmacher]

@prowla, @GisserD is correct. The “support” I do on these pages is done as a hobby, albeit one I'm pretty serious about. I’m not a company representative in an official capacity. (I also spend time on the SA and Morningstar communities helping out people for which I am also not paid. I spent well over an hour last night helping someone to troubleshoot a controller issue.)

As far as there being a standard 0-127 is more usual. If you think about it from a standard  parameter standpoint; which is more logical - a volume control or LFO depth that runs from 1-128 or one that runs 0-127, especially when zero volume or LFO depth is present?

There are probably plenty of controllers out there which will work just fine. I merely recommended the MC6 as it’s fantastic and does so much useful and cool stuff. It allows amazing possibilities on the FI. Also, as I mentioned, James at Morningstar is very receptive to customer input and feedback and has already expressed interest in adding a feature which will deal with these out-by-one issues on some other devices.

(Out of interest, have you used the controller to control your Minitaur? That’s another device which runs 0-127 I believe as PC engages panel mode.)

Please don’t read any sarcasm or snippiness in my tone as none is intended.