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Bands less than the sum of their parts?


odysseus

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36 minutes ago, Graham said:

I listened to that album not long ago, it's the worst thing I've ever heard

It is. I think that Ian Astbury from The Cult made a brave attempt at defending it: 

From: http://www.noise11.com/news/the-cult’s-ian-astbury-defends-lou-reed-and-metallica-20120131

“Lou Reed, he’s a 67-year-old man,” Astbury continued, “His body of work is stellar, he is one of our greatest laureates. If you know anything about Lou Reed, he’s not well right now. He’s deteriorating, his body’s sick, he’s getting frail and fragile. He’s chosen Metallica to be his muscle, to be his armor, so he can come out one more time and make a statement of what’s happening in his internal life, and he’s using this Weimar Republic play, Lulu, to put himself over.

“If you actually listen to the record, there’s some phenomenal moments on it, by anybody’s standards. ‘Junior Dad’ for example, I think is a flipping brilliant piece of music.”

With that type of context I always wanted to give it another chance. One more listen. 'Maybe I was missing something?' Something that I will discover on the next run through. I put it on again, only to hear Mr Hetfield scream 'I AM THE TABLE' at the top of his lungs. It is hypnotically horrific. 


 

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23 minutes ago, thodrik said:

With that type of context I always wanted to give it another chance. One more listen. 'Maybe I was missing something?' Something that I will discover on the next run through. I put it on again, only to hear Mr Hetfield scream 'I AM THE TABLE' at the top of his lungs. It is hypnotically horrific.

I can't say I'm a fan of either participating artist, but based on everyone's comments so far, I had to give it a try, out of morbid curiousity.

Bugger me.

 

I think the following comment under the Youtube video summed it up nicely:

"ST. ANGER: I'm the worst Metallica album ever

LULU: HOLD MY BEER"

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The Hendrix, Jim Morrison, Buddy Miles, et al album recorded at The Scene nightclub.

The album sounded like everybody involved was drunk (it is suggested that they were). The album has been available with various names/titles, all very raw, all listenable. 

If you see the album (normally as a picture disc) DON'T buy it to play - has decorative value only.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleeding_Heart_(album)

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2 hours ago, fretmeister said:

I really liked Winery Dogs, but so far I’ve been really disappointed with the Sons of Apollo even though the rhythm section is identical. 

 

 

Now I'm in exactly the opposite camp. Love the Sons of Apollo and saw them twice in Scotland last year. Jeff Scott Soto has the kind of voice that james laBrie wishes he still had and Ron Thall's guitar playing is superb.  Add them to my favourite drummer on his BIG kit and I'm in heaven. 

Winery dogs CDs are ok for a single listen but not much more than that for me I'm afraid. 

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39 minutes ago, TheGreek said:

The Hendrix, Jim Morrison, Buddy Miles, et al album recorded at The Scene nightclub.

The album sounded like everybody involved was drunk (it is suggested that they were). The album has been available with various names/titles, all very raw, all listenable. 

If you see the album (normally as a picture disc) DON'T buy it to play - has decorative value only.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleeding_Heart_(album)

Oh good god, I didn't realise that was put out as an album.

I'd stumbled across a handful of tracks from that session on various compilations, and they are...pretty awful. Morrison definitely sounds half-cut. The rambling guitar work on the title track suggests Jimi is on a different planet from the rest of the band.

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4 hours ago, EliasMooseblaster said:

I've long suspected the problem is that these groups just don't have a great writer among them. Your Billy Sheehans, Paul Gilberts, Steve Vais, etc.,  are incredibly accomplished instrumentalists, but are they necessarily the people you'd want writing the songs that your supergroup is going to play?

 

They are all great writers although Sheehan is the only one in a supergroup. I'd much rather listen to them than any of the other names you've listed (and I wouldn't listen to any Pete Townsend out of principle in the same way that I wouldn't watch a Jimmy Savile TV show). 

I am not a huge fan of the Winery Dogs because they are focused on 'straight up' rock. Kotzen, Sheehan and Portnoy are all amazing players, I just wish they had went for a fusion or shred sound. 'Niacin' shows Sheehan in a fusion setting, and is a better band IMO. 

I am not surprised to see Animal Logic turn up here. They have some great songs and some absolute horrors. The issue there was that Deborah Holland was the main writer, indeed, I believe she had prepared most of the material on her own and brought it to the guys to arrange. At their best, they produced some wonderfully played, intelligent pop music. At their worst, they made some right cheese. So that at least, conforms to Stan's track record of mixing moments of brilliance with some real rubbish. 

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4 hours ago, EliasMooseblaster said:

I've long suspected the problem is that these groups just don't have a great writer among them. Your Billy Sheehans, Paul Gilberts, Steve Vais, etc.,  are incredibly accomplished instrumentalists, but are they necessarily the people you'd want writing the songs that your supergroup is going to play?

 

They are all great writers although Sheehan is the only one in a supergroup. I'd much rather listen to them than any of the other names you've listed (and I wouldn't listen to any Pete Townsend out of principle in the same way that I wouldn't watch a Jimmy Savile TV show). 

I am not a huge fan of the Winery Dogs because they are focused on 'straight up' rock. Kotzen, Sheehan and Portnoy are all amazing players, I just wish they had went for a fusion or shred sound. 'Niacin' shows Sheehan in a fusion setting, and is a better band IMO. 

I am not surprised to see Animal Logic turn up here. They have some great songs and some absolute horrors. The issue there was that Deborah Holland was the main writer, indeed, I believe she had prepared most of the material on her own and brought it to the guys to arrange. At their best, they produced some wonderfully played, intelligent pop music. At their worst, they made some right cheese. So that at least, conforms to Stan's track record of mixing moments of brilliance with some real rubbish. 

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20 minutes ago, Chris2112 said:

They are all great writers although Sheehan is the only one in a supergroup. I'd much rather listen to them than any of the other names you've listed

Ah, I thought to mention the other two as I was aware of Gilbert being a (former?) member of Mr. Big, and Vai being a regular member on Joe Satriani's "G3" tours. The preference over which cohort to listen to is, of course, very much down to one's personal taste.

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56 minutes ago, Chris2112 said:

They are all great writers although Sheehan is the only one in a supergroup. I'd much rather listen to them than any of the other names you've listed (and I wouldn't listen to any Pete Townsend out of principle in the same way that I wouldn't watch a Jimmy Savile TV show). 

I am not a huge fan of the Winery Dogs because they are focused on 'straight up' rock. Kotzen, Sheehan and Portnoy are all amazing players, I just wish they had went for a fusion or shred sound. 'Niacin' shows Sheehan in a fusion setting, and is a better band IMO. 

I am not surprised to see Animal Logic turn up here. They have some great songs and some absolute horrors. The issue there was that Deborah Holland was the main writer, indeed, I believe she had prepared most of the material on her own and brought it to the guys to arrange. At their best, they produced some wonderfully played, intelligent pop music. At their worst, they made some right cheese. So that at least, conforms to Stan's track record of mixing moments of brilliance with some real rubbish. 

Fraid I have to take the opposite view. Saw the Winery Dogs at Sonisphere 2014 and they were very good. Didn't know anything about them though I feared they might be a prog metal or noodly fusion group. When it became clear they were a straight up hard rock band it came as  a great relief. 

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I like the Winery Dogs and Oysterhead, but I agree with Audioslave.

I think Winery Dogs got it right by having a songwriter on board in the shape of Richie Kotzen.  I pretty much lost interest in him back when he joined Poison (Ugh!), and missed out on his stuff up to WD. There's plenty of noodling, but enough song going on to make it a winner for me.

Sons of Apollo... some of it I like, some of it I don't... the jury is still out...

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8 hours ago, Leonard Smalls said:

Animal Logic!

You'd think Stanley (despite some of his dodgier solo offerings) and Stewart Copeland could produce something better than 80s cheese!

Saw them supported by 'Cry Before Dawn' - me neither. Town and Country Club I think. Miles Copeland introduced them. Stanley had about a dozen basses there... It was filmed and has been shown on telly but I don't have a copy. I don't think it was cheesy. This was actually what ended up from the 'Electric Rush Hour' project which would have had Allan Holdsworth on guitar too if he'd agreed.

Anyway back to the OP and I'll go Golden Palominos.

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Love chicken foot , so beg to differ here . Great live also

audioslave ? I bought the first album , but only played it twice .

mind funk . Had the album , but sold it . One good cheesy track..They supported someone at hammy o and were ok . They could have been much better . 
 

winery dogs ? Played the first album a lot . Saw them twice .

excellent gig at Camden underworld . The gig at the forum was beginning to bore me. 
Asia ? Bored me silly when I used to hear them on the radio 

sabbath with dio . I saw them on the heaven and hell tour . Truly awful

I can't stand that album either except neon nights . 
The live evil album is truly dreadful imho . 
They had vinnie appice on drums at the time . 

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1 hour ago, RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE said:

sabbath with dio . I saw them on the heaven and hell tour . Truly awful

I can't stand that album either except neon nights . 
The live evil album is truly dreadful imho . 
They had vinnie appice on drums at the time . 

Glurk!

I think I had better take a pill and lie down for a while...

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On 22/10/2019 at 14:14, thodrik said:

“If you actually listen to the record, there’s some phenomenal moments on it, by anybody’s standards. ‘Junior Dad’ for example, I think is a flipping brilliant piece of music.”

By any objective standard, Junior Dad is a truly terrible piece of music and he/they (allegedly) misunderstood the Weimar play they were referencing.

I remember thinking there was one riff, I forget in which song, which I thought "that's a cool riff, sounds kinda like Isis". I then realised that as much as I like Isis, this one riff only sounded cool because it was island of okay in a sea of unrelenting, unforgivable awfulness. 

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On 22/10/2019 at 16:10, Chris2112 said:

They are all great writers although Sheehan is the only one in a supergroup. I'd much rather listen to them than any of the other names you've listed (and I wouldn't listen to any Pete Townsend out of principle in the same way that I wouldn't watch a Jimmy Savile TV show). 

I am not a huge fan of the Winery Dogs because they are focused on 'straight up' rock. Kotzen, Sheehan and Portnoy are all amazing players, I just wish they had went for a fusion or shred sound. 'Niacin' shows Sheehan in a fusion setting, and is a better band IMO. 

I am not surprised to see Animal Logic turn up here. They have some great songs and some absolute horrors. The issue there was that Deborah Holland was the main writer, indeed, I believe she had prepared most of the material on her own and brought it to the guys to arrange. At their best, they produced some wonderfully played, intelligent pop music. At their worst, they made some right cheese. So that at least, conforms to Stan's track record of mixing moments of brilliance with some real rubbish. 

I tried to find writing credits for the Winery Dogs - but all 3 of them are listed on every tune.

Sheehan has been a successful writer all the way back to Talas, but I don't know if that is music only or whether he also writes lyrics.

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14 hours ago, Graham said:

By any objective standard, Junior Dad is a truly terrible piece of music and he/they (allegedly) misunderstood the Weimar play they were referencing.

 

It truly is a dire effort. I won't grace it with the word 'song' . Lulu is the worst thing Metallica have ever been involved in,  so bad it makes St Anger look like a work of genius and that's down to Lou Reed, IMO an overrated music 'artist' if ever there was.

Other terrible collaborations?

The Firm - the one with Jimmy Page and Paul Rodgers. I'm not a fan of the groups these two are famous for but  The Firm were utter pants as exemplified by 'Radioactive' which is often wheeled out on Planet Rock

Velvet Revolver -  GnR were pants but I quite like Stone Temple Pilots. Mebbe Weiland was too out of out it to know what he was doing in VR, the last word in plod rock.

Hollywood Vampires - oops. A step up for the Aerosmith man mebbe but Alice Cooper, WTF you playing at man!

Edited by Barking Spiders
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On 22/10/2019 at 18:06, visog said:

I don't think it was cheesy.

Animal Logic's songs were cheesey, the bits inbetween the singing not so much! I was also at the Town & Country gig, which was much more of a disappointment thatn the time I saw the Stanley Clarke Band, or the time at the Festival Hall with Stan, Herbie, Wayne Shorter and Omar Hakim!

Now Golden Palominos were largely awful - I think they did about 1 good song (whose name I don't remember) with Jamaaladeen on bass...

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I'm going to say it quietly I quite like the Lulu album

Now, that does need some qualification.  I can't stand Lou Reed's vocals on it, they ruin it for me, so in fact I've only ever listened to it a couple of times, but I really like the music - IMHO some of the most interesting stuff that Metallica has done in a couple of decades.  It's a shame it got such poor reviews, and they went back to their standard insipid dullness on their next album

*grabs tin hat*

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