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Jamerson or Kaye?


paul, the
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This isn't a 'who's your favourite?' What it is, is that one of my favourite bass lines and my favourite bass tone is on the Stevie Wonder Track: "I Was Made To Love Her."

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrsrTvB_F34"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrsrTvB_F34[/url]

Now the problem is, after 20 minutes or so I've got the chord structure down and had a Jamerson style fiddle around them and I went to have a look at anybodys'(g?) ideas online for the specific bass line.

I found this page: ("Carol's famous hit bass line transcriptions...I Was Made To Love Her")

[url="http://www.carolkaye.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=36&osCsid=721f54f83d906ec5958bed1b5d047d05"]http://www.carolkaye.com/catalog/product_i...58bed1b5d047d05[/url]

Now I always assumed, understandably so, that it was a jamerson line from the tone and his relationship with Stevie. And I know Kaye can get a bit sh!tty about this - so I was wondering if anyone can clear this up for me before she comes and stabs me in the jaw.

Anyone got anything beyond say and conjecture?

ta,

Paul.

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Hiya,
I've heard this bass line loads of times & my money's on Jamerson. It's a fingerstyle line that only he could have played.

This isn't to say that Kaye is not a great bass player (I heard her playing on "Sloop John B." on my way into work on Friday morning & deliberately turned the car stereo up to hear her bass part), but Kaye (as far as I'm aware) was pretty handy with a plectrum & the bass part on "I Was Made to Love Her" is all fingerstyle to my ears.

Cheers,
iamthewalrus.

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[quote name='paul, the' post='2452' date='May 19 2007, 09:09 PM']This isn't a 'who's your favourite?' What it is, is that one of my favourite bass lines and my favourite bass tone is on the Stevie Wonder Track: "I Was Made To Love Her."

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrsrTvB_F34"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrsrTvB_F34[/url]

Now the problem is, after 20 minutes or so I've got the chord structure down and had a Jamerson style fiddle around them and I went to have a look at anybodys'(g?) ideas online for the specific bass line.

I found this page: ("Carol's famous hit bass line transcriptions...I Was Made To Love Her")

[url="http://www.carolkaye.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=36&osCsid=721f54f83d906ec5958bed1b5d047d05"]http://www.carolkaye.com/catalog/product_i...58bed1b5d047d05[/url]

Now I always assumed, understandably so, that it was a jamerson line from the tone and his relationship with Stevie. And I know Kaye can get a bit sh!tty about this - so I was wondering if anyone can clear this up for me before she comes and stabs me in the jaw.

Anyone got anything beyond say and conjecture?

ta,

Paul.[/quote]

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[quote name='paul, the' post='2452' date='May 19 2007, 09:09 PM']This isn't a 'who's your favourite?' What it is, is that one of my favourite bass lines and my favourite bass tone is on the Stevie Wonder Track: "I Was Made To Love Her."

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrsrTvB_F34"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrsrTvB_F34[/url]

Now the problem is, after 20 minutes or so I've got the chord structure down and had a Jamerson style fiddle around them and I went to have a look at anybodys'(g?) ideas online for the specific bass line.

I found this page: ("Carol's famous hit bass line transcriptions...I Was Made To Love Her")

[url="http://www.carolkaye.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=36&osCsid=721f54f83d906ec5958bed1b5d047d05"]http://www.carolkaye.com/catalog/product_i...58bed1b5d047d05[/url]

Now I always assumed, understandably so, that it was a jamerson line from the tone and his relationship with Stevie. And I know Kaye can get a bit sh!tty about this - so I was wondering if anyone can clear this up for me before she comes and stabs me in the jaw.

Anyone got anything beyond say and conjecture?

ta,

Paul.[/quote]

Get hold of a copy of Standing in The Shadows of Motown. The Jamerson song book.
It's got the full tab for this plus all the other classics.

My bet is that that James Jamerson recorded this.

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I remember reading about this years ago and a few thing's have always struck me about her bizarre claim to that line those being
Dont you think that someone (other than herself) would have remembered a [b]White female pick playing bassist[/b] playing on a black singers tune with a whole band of black musician's?

As lonestar says grab a copy of the shadows book well worth the money marcus miller nails I was made to love her perfectly even the slap he adds on the outro does'nt sound out of place

Edited by Gizmo
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Thanks guys. Kaye certainly didn't always use a pick. I also think it's Jamerson - although the tone is a little different.

My recent amazon order form:

R&B Bass Masters: The Way They Play - Ed Friedland

Standing in the Shadows of Motown: The Life and Music of Legendary Bassist James Jamerson (book and CD) - Dr Licks

Funkmasters: The Great James Brown Rhythm Sections, 1960-73: For Guitar, Bass and Drums

Funk/Fusion Bass - Hal Leonard Publishing Corporation

I'm going to put some books up for sale on here to try and make up for it a little.

Cheers,

Paul.

---


Here's some more interesting reading on the thread's subject:

[url="http://www.bassland.net/books-n-mags.htm"]http://www.bassland.net/books-n-mags.htm[/url]


[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=011&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=320113649242&rd=1&rd=1"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...p;rd=1&rd=1[/url]

Stevie Wonder's I Was Made To Love Her (as described by Stevie Wonder to his band, "Carol played the original part on my hit")

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The Kaye thing is pretty old news and she has really screwed her rep by claiming cerdit for Jamersons work. Its not a colour thing, a few of the funk brothers were white, Bob Babbit included. As indeed was the bass player on most of the stax/atlantic stuff - none other than the Duckster himself. Some dont realise that he and Steve Cropper played on many of the originals that were covered by the Blues Brothers.

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Nice selection of books there have them all, the jamerson book in particular is worth it just for the intro section, good read in it's self. Shame they didn't include tab for those like me whose reading is slow, I WILL finish putting this song into guitar pro at some stage

oh and bass ferret the blues brothers band in the film was basically the whole house band from stax/atlantic who also put out records under the label Booker t & the MG'S, one of the many reasons i love the film

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[quote name='steve-norris' post='2766' date='May 20 2007, 11:48 AM']oh and bass ferret the blues brothers band in the film was basically the whole house band from stax/atlantic who also put out records under the label Booker t & the MG'S, one of the many reasons i love the film[/quote]

Not quite - no Booker T for startes and Al Jackson was dead by then. [url="http://www.history-of-rock.com/booker_t_and_the_mgs.htm"]http://www.history-of-rock.com/booker_t_and_the_mgs.htm[/url]

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It is interesting that the Dr Licks transcription and Carol Kayes differ. Listen to the original and see which is closest ... It wouldn't surprise me if neither of them played on that track.

Must admit I do like Marcus Millers slap take, I'm not really into slap bass but he sounds superb.

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[quote name='BB2000' post='3314' date='May 21 2007, 04:16 AM']It is interesting that the Dr Licks transcription and Carol Kayes differ. Listen to the original and see which is closest ... It wouldn't surprise me if neither of them played on that track.

Must admit I do like Marcus Millers slap take, I'm not really into slap bass but he sounds superb.[/quote]

I don't want to hear that, I've just ordered the Dr. Licks book!

How do you know Carol Kaye's is different? If no one has her transcription, I might order book .4 from America and check it out. I've heard one or two complaints about the Slutsky transcription, but I'm sure it's nonsense. Although, Jamerson is renowned for adding many deadened and in-between notes (for want of a better word) for intonation and rhythmic feel.

Off topic:

Does anyone think they've nailed the Jamerson tone for under £10000? Or something really close (giggable) for under £1000?


Paul.

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Make that 20-year-old Labella flats. :)

[quote name='dlloyd' post='2478' date='May 19 2007, 09:36 PM']It's covered in depth on this page:

[url="http://bassland.net/jamerson.html#new"]http://bassland.net/jamerson.html#new[/url]

Scroll down to "Who Played Bass on Stevie Wonder's "I Was Made To Love Her"?"[/quote]
Have you listened to the Joe Osborn interview on there? The disgust in his voice is quite amazing... he ain't too impressed with a certain somebody :huh:

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MB1. :)

Could cause a lot of carol kaye signature fenders to appear in the basses for sale section? somehow i doubt it though!my granny played bass on motorheads ace of spades! lemmy was a bit under the weather, my gran was there,you know how these things come bout?????

MB1. AKA TOMMY COCKLES!

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Motown recorded in Detroit, they recorded in LA, they recorded demos in LA and sent the tapes back to Detroit to be rerecorded, they also sent master tapes from LA to Detroit and JJ overdubbed some bass parts (what a mess!). Carol Kaye may have recorded the original of "I Was Made To Love Her" if it started out as a demo but my guess is that it is JJ on the record. Having said that, these songs were recorded and released more than once for singles, albums, shows etc. Which one is she talking about? If it is true that Stevie Wonder says she was the original bass player then I guess that settles the argument. KO to Carol Kaye.

JJ's sound is unique not because of his equipment but because he was a URB bass player who set up the Precision to approximate the very high action and feel of a URB and he only used one finger to pluck the strings, as URB players do.

Also the Blues Brothers band was the Saturday Night Live house band. The record included Paul Schaeffer and Steve Jordan who didn't make it to the film.

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[quote name='paul, the' post='4128' date='May 22 2007, 01:28 AM']The quote is from the Ebay listing. Reliable source? I think not!

I'll see if I can find the same claim anywhere else.

paul.[/quote]

No problem... scrub that comment. I still think it sounds like JJ but the question is why is Carol Kaye so adamant about this.

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[quote name='chris_b' post='4133' date='May 22 2007, 01:43 AM']No problem... scrub that comment. I still think it sounds like JJ but the question is why is Carol Kaye so adamant about this.[/quote]


Sorry f I came off badly there, I was just trying to sound eccentric.


p&l

paul.


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[quote name='dlloyd' post='3576' date='May 21 2007, 01:58 PM']From bassland.net


[/quote]

The information about that is in one of the links but it's fantastic to see it in original writing.

Nice find!

---

[quote name='chris_b' post='3594' date='May 21 2007, 02:14 PM']Motown recorded in Detroit, they recorded in LA, they recorded demos in LA and sent the tapes back to Detroit to be rerecorded, they also sent master tapes from LA to Detroit and JJ overdubbed some bass parts (what a mess!). Carol Kaye may have recorded the original of "I Was Made To Love Her" if it started out as a demo but my guess is that it is JJ on the record. Having said that, these songs were recorded and released more than once for singles, albums, shows etc. Which one is she talking about? If it is true that Stevie Wonder says she was the original bass player then I guess that settles the argument. KO to Carol Kaye.

JJ's sound is unique not because of his equipment but because he was a URB bass player who set up the Precision to approximate the very high action and feel of a URB and he only used one finger to pluck the strings, as URB players do.

Also the Blues Brothers band was the Saturday Night Live house band. The record included Paul Schaeffer and Steve Jordan who didn't make it to the film.[/quote]


I think this is probably the case. There is similar accounts mentioned on the Standing..Shadows of Motown film regarding Babbit. Perhaps the Ebay listing quote was cleverly picked out and that perhaps it truly means that Kaye did the bass originally and then it was redone by Jamerson.

Although my head is in a bit of a puddle now.

Paul.

--

My that's a f'n sweet tone.

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[quote name='bass_ferret' post='2637' date='May 20 2007, 02:02 AM']Some dont realise that he and Steve Cropper played on many of the originals that were covered by the Blues Brothers.[/quote]


Ah yes
That's one of my favorite ironies ..
Blues Brothers tribute bands doing a tribute to a band doing blues covers made famous by people playing Robert Johnson covers ... .. :)

Re Kaye Vs Jamerson.
Don't know, don't care but I love the sound of all that.
I just hope it was all Jamerson 'cos Carole Kay's smelly attitude puts me right off her as a person. Not her playing though.

I don't think being a bad person makes you a bad bassplayer ...

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