Rick05 Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 Hi All, iv been looking through this thread and wanted to ask if anyone knows if the CITIES regulations are affected by Brexit? im currently in the process of ordering a bass from Italy that has some bubinga laminations in the neck and saw this is listed under the restrictions. As I don’t want to risk my bass getting stuck on import I think I might as the luthier to use a different wood to be safe. But wanted to ask if anyone has any experience on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itu Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 This was an issue some years ago, but musical instruments - and basses - have been excluded from this regulation. There are exceptions like certain specific woods (check CITES), but I am sure you can not get them easily nowadays. They have been banned for years, if not decades. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick05 Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 33 minutes ago, itu said: This was an issue some years ago, but musical instruments - and basses - have been excluded from this regulation. There are exceptions like certain specific woods (check CITES), but I am sure you can not get them easily nowadays. They have been banned for years, if not decades. Thanks that’s awesome. So there should be no problem in getting the bass built for me in Italy shipped to the UK even if it has bubinga in it? I’ll check with the luthier as well but thank you for this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 5 hours ago, Rick05 said: Hi All, iv been looking through this thread and wanted to ask if anyone knows if the CITIES regulations are affected by Brexit? im currently in the process of ordering a bass from Italy that has some bubinga laminations in the neck and saw this is listed under the restrictions. As I don’t want to risk my bass getting stuck on import I think I might as the luthier to use a different wood to be safe. But wanted to ask if anyone has any experience on this? Brexit has changed everything. When we were part of the EU Customs Union we could send anything between member countries without any customs involvement. I imported a bass with a Brazilian rosewood fretboard from Europe without any difficulty. Now we are a separate country with no customs links, so anything that is on the CITES list will not be allowed to be imported or exported. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick05 Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 23 minutes ago, chris_b said: Brexit has changed everything. When we were part of the EU Customs Union we could send anything between member countries without any customs involvement. I imported a bass with a Brazilian rosewood fretboard from Europe without any difficulty. Now we are a separate country with no customs links, so anything that is on the CITES list will not be allowed to be imported or exported. Thanks. Is this still an issue now musical instruments are exempt from CITIES? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 1 hour ago, Rick05 said: Thanks. Is this still an issue now musical instruments are exempt from CITIES? There are various levels of interest. The A list, or whatever it's called, is the stuff that cannot be imported or exported under any circumstances, Brazilian Rosewood, Ivory etc. There is no exemption for anything on that list. Various other rosewoods were added to the list a couple of years ago, but were later taken off for musical instruments. I'm not aware of any of the details, and don't know what they were, but the restricted materials will be listed in the CITES documentation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick05 Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 26 minutes ago, chris_b said: There are various levels of interest. The A list, or whatever it's called, is the stuff that cannot be imported or exported under any circumstances, Brazilian Rosewood, Ivory etc. There is no exemption for anything on that list. Various other rosewoods were added to the list a couple of years ago, but were later taken off for musical instruments. I'm not aware of any of the details, and don't know what they were, but the restricted materials will be listed in the CITES documentation. Thanks, so from all the replies today and reading around this issue it looks like I should be ok getting a bass made with bubinga and getting it shipped from Italy to the UK, with no issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellzero Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 I've sold a bass in the U.K. very recently with a Para rosewood (Dalbergia Spruceana) fretboard. No issues with the customs (CN23 correctly filled and pro forma invoice joined) and the bass arrived in 48 hours using FedEx Express. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick05 Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 4 minutes ago, Hellzero said: I've sold a bass in the U.K. very recently with a Para rosewood (Dalbergia Spruceana) fretboard. No issues with the customs (CN23 correctly filled and pro forma invoice joined) and the bass arrived in 48 hours using FedEx Express. Awesome, did the buyer have to complete anything or is the form just on the side of the seller? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellzero Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 All the paperwork is on the side of the seller. The buyer has to pay all the duties, that's all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick05 Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 7 minutes ago, Hellzero said: All the paperwork is on the side of the seller. The buyer has to pay all the duties, that's all. That’s really great to know! Thank you so much for this. Also a huge thanks to everyone on the thread for answering these questions. really happy to get this cleared up and know I can still get the woods I want in the bass without any extra charges or red tape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellzero Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 Remember that Brazilian rosewood is not allowed except with a permit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick05 Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 12 minutes ago, Hellzero said: Remember that Brazilian rosewood is not allowed except with a permit. Thanks, the only wood I’m looking at from the cities list is bubinga 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 5 hours ago, Rick05 said: Thanks, so from all the replies today and reading around this issue it looks like I should be ok getting a bass made with bubinga and getting it shipped from Italy to the UK, with no issues. If the CITES docs say it's OK then OK. Don't forget the 22% - 25% additional cost of importing a bass. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick05 Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 2 minutes ago, chris_b said: If the CITES docs say it's OK then OK. Don't forget the 22% - 25% additional cost of importing a bass. Thanks. this is the first bass Iv bought from abroad, so not aware of this additional cost. Is this a shipping or a customs charge? iv been quoted an amount for the bass and shipping by the luthier, so is this a cost on top of that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FDC484950 Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 Yes, it’s now like buying (new or used) from the USA. You’ll pay 2% import duty on the declared value of the instrument from the EU (3.5% from the USA I believe), including shipping, then 20% VAT on the total (and possibly customs clearance charges as well). 25% is a decent rule of thumb - which, together with poor exchange rates can make a cheap instrument expensive! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 20 minutes ago, Rick05 said: this is the first bass Iv bought from abroad, so not aware of this additional cost. Is this a shipping or a customs charge? iv been quoted an amount for the bass and shipping by the luthier, so is this a cost on top of that? If your price covers shipping, you still have to pay VAT and various charges. . . . all extra to the price of the bass. Are you paying in Pounds or Euros? Who is paying the bank charges to convert one into the other? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick05 Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 8 hours ago, chris_b said: If your price covers shipping, you still have to pay VAT and various charges. . . . all extra to the price of the bass. Are you paying in Pounds or Euros? Who is paying the bank charges to convert one into the other? Ok thanks, I wasn’t aware of that but it’s something I’ll have to accept. im paying in Euros but fairly good exchange rate at the moment through the bank. In terms of the VAT etc, will that come straight from customs? Just wondering how and when I will pay that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Browning Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 8 minutes ago, Rick05 said: Ok thanks, I wasn’t aware of that but it’s something I’ll have to accept. im paying in Euros but fairly good exchange rate at the moment through the bank. In terms of the VAT etc, will that come straight from customs? Just wondering how and when I will pay that. Usually the carrier will pay that and seek reimbursement before they deliver it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velarian Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Make sure the seller isn’t charging local VAT in their price to you otherwise you’ll end up paying VAT twice. If it’s for export they should supply ex-VAT. As far as I’m aware the courier will act as an agent for HMRC and you’ll pay them. In other words, they won’t deliver the item until you’ve paid them for all import duties, VAT, oh and probably their admin fee for processing all of that! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick05 Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 15 minutes ago, Velarian said: Make sure the seller isn’t charging local VAT in their price to you otherwise you’ll end up paying VAT twice. If it’s for export they should supply ex-VAT. As far as I’m aware the courier will act as an agent for HMRC and you’ll pay them. In other words, they won’t deliver the item until you’ve paid them for all import duties, VAT, oh and probably their admin fee for processing all of that! Thanks, that’s really good to know and will check with the luthier. Iv paid the deposit on the bass and will pay the full amount when it is built, but will just check on local VAT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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