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stewblack

Amp Modelling

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For pedals I like and use Tech21's VT Bass, Leeds and Sansamp Para Driver, I also use Amplitube for plug ins when recording using a DAW.

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8 hours ago, stewblack said:

Hello bass hive mind. 

What is your preferred way of using amp modelling? Pedals I mean. 

I use amp modelling to replace my physical amp and cab. Around 12 months ago my band moved over from having traditional backline on stage to using in ear monitors. Using an amp and cab sim (more accurately sims as I use different amp and cab models to suit my different gigging basses) allows me to keep the bass sounding natural, as though it's still being played through an amp and cab, so the sound is still coloured to some degree. I personally prefer this colouration to going straight into the desk via a DI. And with the quality of modelling currently available the sounds are virtually indistinguishable from the real thing what with responsive touch dynamics and realistic weighty sounds. My sound is simple, just an amp and cab model and a compressor plus a touch of drive for a couple of songs, no other bells or whistles. Bass into the modeller into the PA.

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Don't know how you mean by "preferred way to use Amp Modelling".

I assume you mean what do you use & where you plug in to.

I use a HD500x, and plug it in to the Effects Return of my Ashdown. Maybe not the "right" way to use it, but it works for me.

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1 hour ago, Skybone said:

Don't know how you mean by "preferred way to use Amp Modelling".

I assume you mean what do you use & where you plug in to.

I use a HD500x, and plug it in to the Effects Return of my Ashdown. Maybe not the "right" way to use it, but it works for me.

Initially this is what I meant, but actually the responses widening the topic to amp modelling in general are instructive and fascinating, so I'm happy! 

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I've recently jumped into the amp modelling ship with the Line 6 Helix.  Got it in the spring and initially ran it into the fx return of my Carvin BX700 with Markbass 121H cab.  The amp and cab sounded good, although I knew I wanted to streamline and replace the amp with an FRFR solution.  This way I would be confident that the sound on stage would match the sound in the PA and IEM.

Now using a Headrush FRFR-112 and I'm very happy with it so far.  It sounds bigger and deeper than you'd expect. On paper it doesn't go as low as a dedicated bass cab, (Freq Resp 53hz-20khz +/-3db and Freq Range 46hz-22khz -10db), but a benefit of this is it's akin to having a built-in hpf - you can turn up the wick and it still sounds bassy but doesn't get muddy and boomy.

I don't use cab models or IRs.  I prefer a simple eq lpf eq block at the end of the chain to tame the tweeter. My reasoning is that almost every recorded bass tone you hear, and most live bass tones are usually DI from the bass into the desk or straight out of the amp. If a bass cab is mic'd it's usually blended with a DI.  The tone I get out of an amp model straight to my FRFR sounds so much better, punchier and 'real' than the tone of an amp model, through a mic'd up cab, through my FRFR.  Besides, many bass players, including myself, tend to choose an amp and cab solution that colours the bass tone as little as possible.  You could argue that many bass amps/cabs are already FRFR. If this is your preference, why change it with a mic'd cab model?

Also, FWIW, the SVT-Pro4 model in the latest Helix update is pretty damn perfect. Line 6 have really knocked it out of the park with this amp model.  I've never used and ampeg and never bought an amp becuase of its colouration, but this one just sounds so good and sits in the mix perfectly. 

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I’m with @Greg Edwards69, both rig wise and geographically! I don’t use amp modelling at all. I run into a Fishman pre for tone shaping then straight into a QRC K12.2 and live I DI out the back of the QRC. I’m thinking about a helix but really I wouldn’t use a fraction of its functionality. Because I use acoustic basses what I want is the tone of the bass itself so as little in the signal chain for me as possible, which is now making me wonder why I posted this on an Amp Modelling thread, ahem... *shuts up*

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I run a Helix into an RCF745, and I don't really bother with amp modelling either. After all an amp is a device primarily designed to make your solid electric instrument louder, and any "sound" it might have is mostly accidental due to the constraints of technology or budget.

For my 5-string bass patches I use an EQ module rather than an amp sim. and where I have used an amp sim it was picked for its drive sound instead of using a distortion pedal sim.

For the Bass VI I mostly use the amp sim base on the Roland Jazz Chorus as the EQ frequencies match up nicely with sonic space left over by the synths and the the drive tone works well on the top end.

I haven't bothered with any speaker cab sims at all.

Edited by BigRedX

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I'm a bit kack handed with this stuff but here goes... I had a Hartke VXL which was a great pre amp pedal for my precision bass. I went from individual pedals to a boss GT10-B. Yes, it's old technology but modern enough for me and does far more stuff than I will ever need. I have played around with the amp sims, which include a Trace Elliot sound, as well as others you'd expect such as Ampeg and a guitar amp sound too. I was using this a lot at first with a Sire jazz bass and disabling the eq on my Ashdown amp and going straight to the input, I've never heard of going straight to the fx return but will give it a go. That may have been a case of me playing with two new toys that had arrived at a similar time though!! There was a "super flat" amp sound I absolutely loved using with that bass. 

Playing live now I rarely play with the amp sims, in fact I'll turn it off on some effects to avoid cluttering things up. It's useful to get the clean amp sound and the eq effects it kicks in for when I want a slappy type sound but now I'm playing a USA Stingray I love the sound so much I can get by with just the bass and Ashdown amp and no effects whatsoever. 

I want to do some recording soon and will be using the amp sims a lot as I experiment with tone. When it goes to the detail of different types of mics on cabs though I get a bit lost, it's impressive detail but it's a layer of detail too far for me. 

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9 hours ago, stewblack said:

So if you plug your pedal into the return, you bypass the preamp? Is that how this works? 

Yup, I did toy with the idea of going FRFR, but all the rigs that were being recommended here were out of my price range, and the ones I could afford were being slated for their lack of bass response. The solution IMO, was to get a reasonably priced combo with an Effects Loop (preferably on the front panel) and bypass the preamp.

Yes, it could potentially colour the sound, running into the combo speakers, but they can certainly handle everything that I throw at them, the amp itself is very capable & proven, and transparent enough to give me the sounds I want out of the combo.

Cost effective and sonically effective.

For recording, I simply get the engineer to plug into the xlr outs on the HD, job done.

Had an odd gig experience where the house engineer took the output from the HD into his DI, then into the amp, where he could just have DI'd from the HD, but I really couldn't be bothered arguing with him, as he obviously wasn't listening.

Edited by Skybone

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So glad I asked my initial question so ambiguously! I've inadvertently opened a tasty can of tech-worms. 

This is great stuff. For the record I am by inclination a P-Bass straight into the amp and turn it up kind of guy. However I also can't help investigating different set ups and creative possibilities It's fun, it's inventive, and endlessly fascinating to me. 

So for anyone who reads this and thinks, what a load of unnecessary bo||ocks just plug and play - I know  I agree, but, technology has gifted us these creative possibilities so why not use them? 

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2 hours ago, stewblack said:

 I am by inclination a P-Bass straight into the amp and turn it up kind of guy.

Sounds like a job for a Sansamp.

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zoom B3n from jack out straight into mixer normally. I only really dep now, not in a full time band, and in the wedding scene pretty much everyones IEM's now. The zoom sounds phenominal through the in ears, and I've ever had a complaint with the out front sound... so I'll be sticking to that.  I think any improvements made to further generations of the consumer level amp sims will be so slight i doubt it will be worth it.  For bass anyway... guitars, it would have to be helix.

 

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put the theory into practice tonight at the rehearsal room. Used the in house amp and cab, American Sound pedal into return. 

Wow. Just a cheap knock off pedal but seriously, wow. 

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